Thank you, Ms. Green. Minister Sebert.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Certainly, the new facility is much larger than the old one, but it also contains a large space for programming, which is, of course, a necessary component in a modern correctional complex. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister Sebert. Ms. Green.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate that there is room for programming, and that is a good idea. What I am asking about is the number of, let's say, beds that it was sized for, at least 23 inmates with the number of beds. How was that decision made, given falling incarceration rates and the fact that the current facility is not full in terms of bed capacity? Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Green. Minister Sebert.
Yes, I understand that a study was done several years ago. The conclusion was that we needed a bigger and better place. I think that it is probably better, and this is true not only of this correctional facility, but virtually all infrastructure, that it is better to build a bit bigger than you might expect than too small, because if it was too small, then we would have to expand, which would be incredibly expensive. Certainly, it is larger. It may be larger than what we need right now, but it does have, as I say, the initial capacity of 23 beds and provision for a possible expansion. I think it was a wise decision to make it large enough to accommodate possible increases in the numbers that we currently have incarcerated in Fort Smith. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister Sebert. Ms. Green, your time is expired, but we can put you on again if you wish. Thank you. Next, we have Mr. McNeely.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. My question is related to page 276, detail. This budgetary number of 179 supports this transitional program. It seems to be consistent, so it tells me that there is a demand. Could the Minister explain an example or examples of this cost allowance, if there are clients transitioning underneath this offender reintegration program? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. McNeely. Minister Sebert.
I am not sure I entirely understand the question. There is an amount set out there for offender reintegration. If that is the number that is being referred to, the $179,000, that number has been the same. Perhaps I should let Ms. Bolstad answer this question, rather than getting information second-hand and perhaps getting it wrong. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister Sebert. Ms. Bolstad.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The $179,000 noted in grants, contributions, and transfers on the detail is for offender reintegration activities associated with the therapeutic community implementation at SMCC. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Ms. Bolstad. Mr. McNeely.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. How many clients have utilized this cost allowance underneath this reintegration? Last year, for example, we can see we are serving a demand, a little bit more detail on the success of this allowance. For example, how many clients are utilizing this cost allowance for reintegration back into their communities? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. McNeely. Minister Sebert.
Sorry, Mr. Chair. This is to support offender reintegration in the new facility that we are planning. Perhaps Mr. Goldney could elaborate a bit on that answer. I understand this money was transferred from another program that was underutilized. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister Sebert. Just in the interest of time, if you know one of the other members will answer, just give direction so we can try to speed it up a bit. We will go to Mr. Goldney.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. That number does reflect a bit of a change in some of the funding, where we didn't see as much utilization as we might have preferred for wilderness programming, but we are anticipating a need for this funding as we transition the South Mackenzie Correctional Centre into a therapeutic community. What we have identified there is a need for that integration support and building programs with community partners to help support that reintegration. We don't have any numbers available yet, but that is what that funding is targeted for. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Goldney. Mr. McNeely.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am glad that allowance is budgeted for that purpose to provide this reintegration service. I am just curious on the historical justification on the success of it. If you see a need for it, I am glad it is there. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. McNeely. More of a comment. Next, we have Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to follow up on questions from Mr. McNeely here. Can the Minister provide more information about the planned therapeutic community of the South Slave corrections? What is going on right now with that? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister Sebert.
Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. As Members will know, we are advancing this project of transition of the South Mackenzie Correctional Centre to a facility that operates under a therapeutic community model. This is based largely on the Guthrie House program in Nanaimo, British Columbia, that some of us had the opportunity of examining by going down there. It was thought that the Hay River facility would be ideal for this, and I understand that staff has bought into the idea.
When we were down at Guthrie House, it seemed that this was a path that could lead to success. Now, what we don't want, of course, is have people who are recidivists constantly coming back to the facilities, whether here, Fort Smith, or Hay River. So we did look at their program. We have made some alterations to fit with our northern circumstances. We also will need to make some improvements to the facility. As you may know, it is a minimum-security facility, and I believe we have to move it up to medium-security to be appropriate for this type of program. One of the things that is being done is that there will enhanced security fencing, and that is a fairly major item. In addition, I understand that there are some lesser costs that will be involved inside the building. There are a lot of key steps that have to be taken before we make this total transition. We have to develop contingency planning for off-grounds activities and programs of orientation.
As I understand it, there are essentially four stages. There is an orientation that is peer-led, primary treatment with re-entry transition counsellors, case management and outreach, and aftercare. It is a four-step process, and we are working, of course, on this.
There will have to be additional staff training, but as I said earlier, my understanding is that the staff has bought into this idea. We are optimistic. Under the communication plan, all of the staff have been notified of the transition, and they will be receiving continuing updates. I believe, also, that the public will be supportive.
This seems to be an excellent idea. Any of us who had the opportunity of going to Nanaimo, I think, were impressed with what they are doing there. There is no guarantee of 100 percent success, but it did seem to us that there was a better chance of success with this type of therapeutic community.
Those are the steps that we are taking. Some of it is in dealing with the staff, keeping them informed and training them, and also the enhancements or changes that we have to make to the physical site. Thank you, Mr. Chair
Thank you, Minister Sebert. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have been to Guthrie House, saw it firsthand, and saw how it worked really well. It is a positive model. I guess my question is: you talked about your facilities, you know, staff buy-in, but what is your schedule for planning? What have you done to set up planning for the training so that, when it is actually running, the staff are ready to go? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister Sebert.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. The corrections service, I understand, has created a working document for the steering committee, outlining next steps and a work plan that was developed to assist in tracking and task management.
There are a lot of things that need to be done. The work includes operational model development, inmate programming, structural upgrades, staff training, communication plan, a transition and implementation stage, and community re-entry plan. Work has gone, in my view, pretty quickly on this. It was only a few years ago that we started even contemplating this, and as I say, some of us, including the Member who has asked the question, have had the opportunity of visiting Guthrie House. I am satisfied with the progress that we have made, and I am looking forward to this institution being opened. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister Sebert. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I guess my question is: what is the training? Have we started the training of staff? Have we got programs? Staff have to be getting trained so that they can actually be operational when all of that work is done, and we are not waiting. Can the Minister elaborate and focus on just the training? Has there been training done, and what are the next steps moving forward? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Mr. Goldney.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am happy to advise that that work is well under way. Of course, we have to start with the program design, which included the staff and recognizing that the models that we looked at will have to be tailored for the northern context. We wanted the experience and input from staff providing similar types of programming.
The expectation is that the program design is near complete, with complementary training happening already, and the expectation is that training will be done, along with the finalization of the program design, by mid-summer. Then, assuming that we can get the physical changes that are required to the facility done by late summer, that is our time frame for implementation. We might be looking at as soon as early fall. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Goldney. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. That is great to hear because we are moving forward. My question previously, the year before, I asked about engagement with the community because a part of the success of Guthrie House is the involvement of the community. What has the department done to get the community's buy-in, and are we able to do similar stuff that Guthrie House is able to do, or do we have to look at moving them once they complete the program? To get into housing, they maybe have to come to Yellowknife. Has the department looked at that and moved forward on that? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Mr. Goldney.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Of course, we had to do some further work on the program design before we did some of the community engagement, but that work is planned for this spring, and we do expect to more actively seek those discussions with the Town of Hay River and, importantly, potential community partners when it comes to the community integration aspects of it. We won't be just looking at Hay River, recognizing that, for many of these participants in the program, not all of them will be reintegrated back into Hay River. Some will want to look to their home communities and perhaps elsewhere, which will require some of that support.
That is one of the reasons that we looked at re-profiling some of those wilderness programming dollars, to help provide some tools to support community partners in our efforts to support that reintegration. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Goldney. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. That is great to hear. I actually applaud you guys for looking outside of the box and at home communities, as well. That is very positive. My next question is: what is the status of the department's plan to introduce additional security measures at North Slave Correctional Centre? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister Sebert.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think that the main change will be the fence that I have referenced earlier, and I understand that some other minor or less expensive modifications are needed to the actual facility itself, again, removing it from a minimum-security, which it is now, to a medium-security.
Sorry, I might be talking about the wrong place. I'm not fixated on the facility in Hay River, although it has been paramount in my thoughts because it is so important, but I apologize if I misunderstood the question. Are you asking about enhancements to North Slave? Thank you. I think that the things that we needed to have done, we have done, which was largely the fence. There are some minor items that still need to be done, but the major items have been completed. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister Sebert. Mr. Thompson, your time has expired. Are there any further questions from committee? Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I do have a couple more to follow up on that. With the North Slave, the additional measurements there, have you looked at increasing staff for that facility? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Mr. Goldney.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I forgot to add in response to the last question that the outdoor programming that was put on hold pending some of those security enhancements has all been restored. We have done some operational assessments at the North Slave, and at this time, we are not planning any additional staff. The assessments indicate that we are adequately staffed at the moment. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Goldney. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Can the Minister then advise, you know, how much overtime do we see there? Would it be better to actually have new staff in place? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister Sebert.
Yes. Thank you. Thank you for the question. I think overtime will always be a factor in a facility that is open around the clock. I do see that overtime that was pretty significant in past years is still significant, but it does seem to be decreasing this year. As I say, it seems that the nature of the facility, or this type of facility, is that they will always be some overtime. The question is: is it a reasonable amount? I can see that it appears to be going down, at least compared to last year when it was very high. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister Sebert. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, I understand that having a facility open 24/7, there is going to be some overtime because of sickness and stuff like that. I guess my question is: has the department looked at a cost analysis to see if it is more feasible to actually hire a couple more staff in case of that? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
