Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister Sebert.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes. Well, we do want to reduce these costs. One of the ways is by effective use and scheduling of relief corrections officers. We do realize that this is an issue. One of the things that may alleviate the problem is that a Corrections Northern Recruitment Training Program is currently under way in Yellowknife for completion in March 2019. This will provide trained individuals who can apply for employment in the corrections service. I would anticipate or hope, maybe more hope than anticipation, that this would reduce the overtime costs. As I say, in looking at the numbers over the last four or five years, there certainly was a bump in 2017-2018, but we seem to be back now with, at least until January 31st, a lower number. Again, there are people in the system who are being trained. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister Sebert. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Maybe I am not understanding clearly. I understand you do a training program, but previously, you just said that there was no need to be hiring new staff. My question was previously: have you done a cost analysis to see if we should have more staff in there that would reduce the cost of overtime? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Mr. Goldney.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The previous evaluations have demonstrated that the staff complement that we have is adequate. When we say we don't need more staff, it is really positions that haven't been identified as, you know, that facility is having a shortage of positions. You know, from time to time, there are sicknesses and vacancies that we have to manage, and that does make overtime challenging at times. We do look to the training opportunities to make sure that we have a ready pool of relief workers. I think that was part of the problem that we had seen in past years, where that pool wasn't as deep as we might have preferred, and then cascading that overtime problem by relying on a smaller number of people.
We do think that we have turned the corner with that problem and do have adequate positions and more relief workers available. This will always be a challenging thing to manage, overtime, and we are very mindful that we have to keep our eyes on that issue, because it can be a significant cost driver. The challenge is, we can't just add more positions without affecting the hours of the existing positions. There is that balancing that has to be done. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Goldney. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate that answer. My next question is in regard to case management and recruitment of Indigenous people to be working in those positions. I guess my question is: do you have a plan in place, a session planning, that you actually train your Indigenous workers who wish to be in that role? Do you give them the ability to do training so that, when those positions come available, they are the ones who are given that opportunity? Right now, my understanding is we see a lot of Priority 3 staff in that position. Have you set up a plan for that? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Mr. Goldney.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. We do recognize that this is an important area for improvement. I believe we talked about this last time. When it comes to the training opportunities, we do apply the Affirmative Action Policy and actively engage Aboriginal employees and try and encourage participation in those opportunities. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Goldney. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. That is great to hear, but what is our success rate? How many Indigenous people are case management workers? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister Sebert.
Yes. If I can break it down by different institutions, at North Slave Correctional Centre, my understanding is that 50 percent of middle management are Indigenous, and 10 percent of program staff, and 16 percent of correctional officers. In South Mackenzie Correctional Centre, the figure is 80 percent for total management, 50 percent of program staff, and 48 percent of correctional officers. In the Fort Smith Correctional Centre, it is 70 percent of total management, 60 percent of program staff, and 49 percent of correctional officers. Those are the figures for the three different facilities. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister Sebert. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I thank the Minister for that answer. Again, though, I am asking case management. You know, when we are looking at it, have you looked at that information? If you don't have it, can you get it to us? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister Sebert.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. No, I don't have that figure in front of me, but I can certainly obtain it and provide it to committee.
Thank you, Minister Sebert. Any further questions from committee? Seeing none, I will call the page. Justice, court service, operation expenditure summary, $13,790,000. Sorry, I was getting ahead of myself here. Under Justice, corrections, operation expenditure summary, $37,421,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you. Next, we have Justice, court service, operation expenditure summary. Ms. Green.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have a question about court registries. There is a reference on page 268 under the revenue summary that, "Land title and legal registry fees will increase by $500,000 in the next fiscal year." I am wondering if the Minister can give us some detail on how that is going to be accomplished. Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Green. Minister Sebert.
I wonder if we might defer that to the revenue summary page. It doesn't come under this section; at least in our notes, it doesn't. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister Sebert. Ms. Green.
I will defer my question until we get to the summary page on revenue.
Thank you, Ms. Green. Next, we have Mr. Thompson.
If I can ask a question there, Mr. Chair. Last year, I talked about the Justice of the Peace program. Can the Minister elaborate if we have seen an increase in hiring in that area? Appointing in that area, not hiring; appointments of that area. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister Sebert.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am not aware of any shortages as far as justices of the peace, if that is the question. I don't know the exact number, but we could certainly provide it to committee. We can easily find out that figure. Again, I am not sure of whether there are vacancies or shortages. I am not aware of them, if there are. There may be vacancies. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister Sebert. Any further questions, Mr. Thompson?
Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair. My concern or my understanding is, I know in my riding, we only have one in Fort Simpson and we don't have anything in Fort Liard. Previously, we had two or three in Fort Simpson and at least one in Fort Liard, so again, this is a valuable service. I guess my question is: you are saying there isn't, but how are we going to be able to help administer justice if we don't have these positions there and they have to go out and get the service from another community? Will the Minister look at that? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister Sebert.
Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you for the question. As I say, I wasn't aware of a shortage or an undersupply, if I can put it that way, of justices of the peace, but I am aware that people are retiring, of course, or taking on different occupations. Yes, certainly, I will look at that. We do need justices of the peace and they do fulfill a very important position in the community. Yes, it would be better. If there is a shortage, we should certainly look at it and attempt to recruit people, I agree. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister Sebert. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the Minister looking into that. I am looking forward to seeing the numbers of JPs we have out there. Again, I think it is a valuable service for our system. You know, it helps the RCMP, it helps the community, and victims and people all alike. Again, it is just more of a comment, and I thank the Minister for looking into this matter. Thank you.
Thank you. Comment taken. Any further questions, committee? Mr. O'Reilly.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. I think this is where the court registries is found. As I understand it, I think it was last year that the court system went to a different way of doing court reporting. I wonder if the Minister can give us an update on how that has worked out. Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister Sebert.
Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. This is a question I will perhaps have Mr. Goldney expand on, but yes, we are moving and have been moving to a new system. This is not something that we are breaking new ground on. This is quite common in the South. Ultimately, I think there will be an ongoing requirement, or likely for the near future, for subcontractor court reporters in jury trials. I know in the past, of course, we use them at all levels of court. We are in the process of moving to a different system. This is to really modernize and hopefully make more efficient our current system. Having court reporters, and generally they come from the South, has been very expensive for us.
Again, I think that using court recording technology would reduce our reliance on contracts. I think most of these contracts, if not all of them, were with southern contractors and were incredibly expensive. Many courtrooms in Canada have introduced new court recording technology, and I understand that a successful pilot was completed in two Yellowknife courtrooms and in some circuits late last year. New equipment and software will be rolled out in the future.
Perhaps Mr. Goldney can expand on that. Again, we are not out of step with other jurisdictions in this. I think, to some degree, we are catching up. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister Sebert. Mr. Goldney.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. We have been testing this technological change for some time, now. We have learned along the way, so there has been some product adjustment in some of the technology that we use, but I can report that we have the recording equipment now installed in all of the courtrooms in the Yellowknife Courthouse, in Hay River, and Fort Smith, and soon we will have the same equipment in Inuvik.
We have also been testing portable equipment for the circuit court. The big change that end users will eventually see is, instead of having to wait for a court reporter to generate transcripts and charge, they can now get near immediately a digital recording of the proceedings and transcripts from that recording can be generated quicker and cheaper. So we do anticipate that there will be some appreciation for that enhanced service.
As the Minister noted, we do also anticipate there will still be an ongoing use of court reporting for, certainly, jury trials. There might be other trials where the use of a court reporter will continue, but we are still evaluating those options. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Goldney. Mr. O'Reilly.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. With the five minutes I have left, I guess I would like to know how this change is affecting access to justice. I guess my concern is that, if defence counsel has to pay for the generation of transcripts, I wonder whether those are acceptable to the court or not. How is this affecting access to justice? Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister Sebert.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Our belief is that it is not detrimentally affecting access to justice. Again, this is a system or type of system that has been used in the South for a long time. My understanding is that there should be no diminution of the access to justice. If there is, we will have to make sure that the system is updated and, as I say, we are rolling this out now. There may be glitches along the way. Hopefully not, but I am confident that there will be no loss of access to justice with this system. I think that is what they found down South, and that is why they have moved to this, quite apart from reasons of cost. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister Sebert. Mr. O'Reilly.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. Can the Minister tell us, then, how this pilot project is going to be evaluated, and is he willing to share that evaluation with the appropriate standing committee? Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Mr. Goldney.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. We are evaluating the experience and making sure, working with the judiciary, that there is confidence in the technology and the approach. I don't think we are anticipating a formal written evaluation. It really is just a matter of ensuring that the technological solution works as we expect and that we have the confidence of the judiciary and court staff that we have a reliable means of recording the proceedings and documenting them appropriately. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
