Thank you, Mr. Goldney. Mr. O'Reilly.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. Yes, I think I heard the deputy minister say that there is not going to be a formal written evaluation. If there is no formal written evaluation, how do you decide whether you are going to continue to expand or not? I would like to ask that question. Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister Sebert.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. As this is rolled out, I hopefully will learn from my experiences as we move ahead with this. Again, I am confident that there will be no loss of access to justice.
Yes, it is something new, but while it is new here, it has been tried and true in other jurisdictions. I am confident that there will not be, as I say, a loss of access to justice, because we will be keeping a careful eye on this. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister Sebert. Mr. O'Reilly.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. While I appreciate the Minister keeping a careful eye on it, that is not the same as an actual evaluation. I guess I remain to be convinced. Has the department reached out to the Law Society or defence counsel to get their views as to how this is being implemented and whether it is an improvement, or how it is affecting access to justice? Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister Sebert.
Thank you. We do meet with lawyers in the defence bar. I certainly do quite often. I was one until a few years ago, though the system was rolled out after I had taken on new responsibilities. I haven't heard, from the defence lawyers, complaints about this system, and they are not shy. I think they would come to me if they did have concerns. All I can say is that I haven't heard any specific concerns about this system. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister Sebert. Mr. O'Reilly.
Thanks. I don't have any further questions for the Minister on this issue, but I just want to reiterate my concern. If you don't have any formal way of evaluating whether this is improving services or affecting access to justice, and it is a pilot, how do you decide whether you are going to expand this or not? I don't think that is a good way to proceed, but I will leave it at that. Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Any further questions, committee? Seeing none, Justice, court services, operation expenditures, $13,790,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you. Next, we have legal aid services from pages 281 to 283. Any questions, committee? Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. My question is to the Minister in regard to legal services, about the opportunity to branch it out to the South Slave. I know that, in 2014, they looked at this. However, in 2014, we had lawyers there. Presently, in Hay River, we see one lawyer retiring and another lawyer downsizing his practice. Can the Minister explain why they wouldn't be looking at this? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister Sebert.
Thank you. I think that, in 2014, there were concerns expressed about disruption of the private practitioners south of the lake. The Member is quite correct; there are fewer practising lawyers south of the lake now than there were then. There is nobody who is actively practising in Fort Smith, and the situation also in Hay River is in transition. I think we can put it that way.
This was looked at before, as I understand it, in 2014, and apart from issues of disruption, there were concerns about conflicts. It seems to me that it is worth examining this again. I don't know whether we should be putting a new clinic in somewhere outside Yellowknife, but we may need more clinics to avoid conflict issues. Certainly, I am open to considering the idea of an additional clinic or, perhaps, more legal aid lawyers, because they all do seem to be busy.
Again, in the past, there was concern expressed about disruption of the legal profession south of the lake. Those concerns may not be as relevant today as they were then, and we haven't done any real planning about this, but certainly I am open to discussion and consideration of this. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister Sebert. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I appreciate the Minister's answer. I understand that, in 2014, we had a thriving law practice in Hay River, and then we had a lawyer in Fort Smith at that time, who has now gone on to a different career. Again, though, it is about the ability to provide legal services to the residents of the South Slave, which encompasses a lot of the communities. Can the Minister look at a cost analysis of this and get back to committee on this? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister Sebert.
Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. I think that we could do some preliminary investigation about this with respect to costs and get back to committee. I am willing to do that. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister Sebert. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I appreciate the Minister doing that. With part of that cost analysis, could he look at the need, the demand of these positions, and how many people need the services? Can that be part of the study, as well? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister Sebert.
Yes, certainly. That would be a part of any analysis, because we would have to determine what the need is, which we can do. I think we could look at numbers, dockets, and so on. Yes. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister Sebert. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. As part of that cost analysis, can the department, when they look at this, see if there is the feasibility of finding office space for the clinic to be there as part of the investigation? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister Sebert.
Yes, of course. Initially, we would have to determine whether there was a need, and whether it made sense, and whether it would be more efficient. Ultimately, I suppose, part of any cost analysis would be rent costs. I don't think we are at that stage yet of looking at what the cost of rent would be, and I don't know whether that would be part of our initial analysis, but at some point, if we did move ahead, obviously the cost of rent would have to be looked at. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister Sebert. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I understand the Minister's apprehension to this, but, again, if we are really going to look at the feasibility of this, that has to be part of the process. So, again, I am asking the Minister and the department if they are willing to add this to part of the evaluation of it. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister Sebert.
Yes, I think it would be reasonable to look at ballpark costs, rent costs, as part of this analysis. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister Sebert. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I thank the Minister for that, and I look forward to seeing that information as we move forward. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Any further questions, committee? Seeing none, I will call the page. Legal aid services, operations expenditure summary, $6,571,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Agreed. Thank you. Next we have Office of the Regulator of Oil And Gas Operations, operations expenditure summary, $1,874,000. Any questions, committee? Seeing none, does committee agree?
Agreed.
Okay. I will call it again. Office of the Regulator of Oil And Gas Operations, from pages 284 to 287, $1,874,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Agreed. Thank you. Next we have policing services, operations expenditure summary, $46,257,000, from pages 288 and 289. Any questions? Mr. Nakimayak.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Looking at First Nations policing, we have a lot of First Nations in the territory. We have two reserves. Earlier on the floor of the House there was some talk about the lack of police services in some communities. I am wondering if the department has ever looked at something like having community constables in communities that do not have police officers so that we can have some stability of policing, or at least some type of reporting for crime and to be there for individuals in the communities. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Nakimayak. Minister Sebert. Okay. Thank you. Mr. Goldney.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. We are working with the RCMP and looking at options, including having discussions with our federal partner on accessing resources dedicated to First Nations policing. The challenge, though, in having a program that would have officers by themselves in communities is likely insurmountable, just given the occupational health concerns that would come into play and the program design. Where we see community constables, for example, they are always co-located where they have the additional support of other officers. So that has not been something that we have looked at, a program that might see them placed in communities where there are not existing resources. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Goldney. Mr. Nakimayak.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Maybe just a suggestion, but it might be something worth looking into for the next Assembly. Some communities are hard to reach, and some are fly-in only, and some are quite remote, that there needs to be something there for the community. So we are looking at the health and safety of one or two individuals as opposed to a whole community. I think we need to look through a different lens, Mr. Chair. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Nakimayak. Minister Sebert.
Yes, I thank the Member for his comments. Of course, his question comes up quite often. We are aware of the necessity of policing services in the smaller, more remote communities. As I mentioned earlier today with respect to the community of Tsiigehtchic, it's not as though there is no policing there. They go in on an intermittent basis, staying overnight on occasion. Now, I mean, it would be best if we could have officers in every single community, but that is not really possible anymore. There is not only the cost issue, but, as Mr. Goldney alluded to, I don't think you can have one officer in a community anymore. That is just not possible, but we are always aware of the needs of the communities, always want to enhance the policing, but may not be able to place officers in every single community. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister Sebert. Mr. Nakimayak.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just one last thing here, you know, it might be something that we can look at, some of the communities that have a highway, as part of a highway patrol. Someone, a Member on the floor, mentioned that there is a residence in one of the communities, and that might be an option, to look at that and restructure that. I am sure that, as part of operations, it's something that might be doable by the department and the federal government. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
