Thank you. Mr. Vanthuyne.
Yes. I appreciate that. I think that one of the things and one of the areas that we will really have to focus on, although it is not directly in this department but it certainly ties in to what the Minister has just indicated, is that we need to build strong capacity, especially as it relates to trades. The opportunity to promote and attract individuals to enter into the apprenticeship programs would be something that we should be promoting strongly and working interdepartmentally to achieve. I just wanted to note that for the record. I have no further questions in this activity. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Next, we have Mr. McNeely.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I know in the past year, during our capital session here, we had talked about carry-overs, carry-overs. From past experience there, it has always been the wishes of the private sector to have multi- or carry-over contracts. Now, in this position, I see how we can share the wishes of the private sector and accommodate the carry-over budget to allow the project to go through. Now, it is a matter of the department to design and even give some thought to sectional approaches to the project.
Given that experience recently, I have shared that with the leadership in Tulita, for example, to say to them to look at piecemealing the construction of the Bear River Bridge. This way, it is maximizing on employment training as well as commerce opportunities as well as seeing the project going through and providing multiple years of benefits to the remote community in this case. I am quite satisfied with the discussions we have had in the past and the whole idea that it is not being ruled out on carry-overs.
Carry-overs are actually a good thing. In some parts of our Territory, that is all you are allowed to do is seasonal access, which means carrying over to the next season. In our case, in the Sahtu, in some cases, in some projects there, you are only accessible for the winter months, and the spring thaw comes in. Normally, you know, it revolves around the winter oats season, which usually starts deteriorating to the latter part of March. Avenues to prolong that are looked at, nighttime travel. Those are all factors that I have come to learn in this line of work here that supports the project, as well as employment, as well as prolonging benefits. I share that with the colleagues here today. Thank you
Thank you. Does the Minister care to respond?
Thank you, Mr. Chair. In my previous comments about the other ones to the other Member, as well, when you start talking about Canyon Creek as a good example of doing a small section instead of doing the entirety of the road, it will capitalize on local employment, local businesses, and training opportunities. We will continue to look at that. When you look at our plan going forward, around the Mackenzie Valley Highway, the Mount Gaudet section is clearly going to be another one of those sections that the people in the Deh Cho are going to be able to capitalize on as an opportunity, very similar to what happened in the Sahtu.
We continue to work with the community of Tulita, as I said, with the Bear River Bridge to look at whether there are any possibilities of breaking out some stuff out of that project, where some local people can capitalize on the opportunity that is there. We will continue to look at those things.
Contractors, obviously, have a role to play in carryovers, as well. They are challenged, as well, around capacity issues and staffing, and that is why we have the Department of Education working on what they do around skills training and the Skills 4 Success document moving forward. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Further, Mr. McNeely? Nothing further from Mr. McNeely. Next, Mr. Beaulieu.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, in our review of the business plan in this section, we have identified the Infrastructure staff. It appears as though a lot of the Infrastructure staff are getting close to retirement.
I was wondering if I could ask the Minister what the plan is to try to retain the corporate knowledge as they move forward, if there is a large amount of senior people retiring in the next five years. What is the plan? What is the human resource plan to retain corporate knowledge in this department? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Deputy Minister Guy.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Certainly that is an issue that has been identified for us over the past few years. Prior to amalgamation of the departments, each department had their own HR plan and their own risk management plan, and in those risk management plans and HR plans, this was identified as one of those key issues that we needed to work on going forward.
As we went through the amalgamation process, a lot of that succession took place. We had a number of retirements of key people across the departments, both in headquarters and in other regions, and we were able to use the capacity of the amalgamated department to step in and fill many of those vacancies. We were able to retain a lot of that corporate knowledge and continue to have strong long-term people in those key positions.
As we move forward, we are doing a number of things now in the Department of Infrastructure, which are building on the tools that we had in place before, things like management training programs, developmental transfer assignments, and building that capacity from within. Also, I think the government widespread has this issue. There is lots of work that the Department of Human Resources is doing as well, in providing opportunities for employees to train, get broader experience by moving to other departments, and moving around within the public service as well to build that capacity for the greater public service.
It is one of our priorities. It is one of the things in our risk management framework that we have identified, and all of our senior managers are working on to build succession within their divisions and in their departments. That is no different than the one that we are speaking about here today. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Deputy Minister Guy. Mr. Beaulieu.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks for that response. On page 240, Mr. Chair, I want to just ask some questions around the local community roads. Community access roads, generally, I think, are used for all seasons, to maybe create an all-season road to various traditional areas that individuals would wish to access. I have a question for the Minister: could this money be used for winter roads? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Minister Schumann.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, this money can be used for winter roads, as long as it is outside of their community. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister Schumann. Mr. Beaulieu.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, just in relation to the same area, I want to ask the Minister if they have a capital budget access road, which is a larger amount and may have a different objective. I know that this is not the capital. I clearly understand that. I am wondering if there is a capital program, however.
Mr. Chairman, an example that I will go to is that, when they were building the Inuvik to Tuktoyaktuk Highway, they first built a 17-kilometre access road along the right-of-way. I am wondering, Mr. Chairman, where that type of money sits. Where does that access money sit, in which area? Is it here, or is it somewhere else? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Minister Schumann.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. That would be a capital plan, so that would have to be a capital appropriation project. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister Schumann. Mr. Beaulieu.
Thank you. I think the Minister said capital appropriation. I said that I understood that, but there something in the capital called access road. I am wondering if there is a set amount in that budget all of the time that is similar to this, but maybe has a different objective. I am wondering if there is money there that should essentially have no impact on this budget. I am not sure I am making myself very clear. Maybe the Minister can help me with this. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Minister Schumann.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. There is no specific amount for capital for access roads. Those are set on priorities that the government sees as we move towards our transportation plan. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister Schumann. Time has expired. Mr. Simpson.
Thank you. Just to follow up on Mr. Beaulieu's comments here, the local community roads on page 240, there is $1.48 million appropriated for it. Should that be in the capital budget? What is this doing here if that is a capital item? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Simpson. Deputy Minister Guy.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. This is an O and M budget line. This is an application-based program, where communities can apply for funding to develop trails, access roads, traditional hunting or trapping trails, or community access projects that they identify and bring forth. It is on a case-by-case application basis.
It is not capital, because they are not GNWT assets that the investments are being made in. These are community projects, community access projects that they identify and apply on. That is why it is here in O and M. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Deputy Minister Guy. Mr. Simpson.
Thank you. I am aware of that. I just wanted to clear it up in Hansard for anyone who is looking at the budget document and trying to follow that conversation. My questions are about, I guess, corporate management. There was talk in the questions from the Member for Yellowknife North about training opportunities and what the department is doing in terms of addressing this deficit, I guess, of skilled workers, such as a journeyman, that we have. I know there was talk about the Minister said we are looking at breaking up contracts, so that smaller organizations can perhaps get in on them. Talking about training locals when there are projects, but there doesn't seem to be anything concrete here. I know that Education has Skills 4 Success, and it is hard to really tell from those documents what exactly is happening on the ground. From the Minister's answers, it sounds like things are sort of happening ad hoc, but there doesn't seem to be a real training plan.
One of the things that is really holding the territory back is the lack of journeymen. It is the lack of skilled labourers. You know, we can build a road to the mines and we can open up new mines. The same people who aren't working today won't be working at that new mine, and that is really the problem. That is where the resources go. It is the people who, you know, need to live in housing or earn income assistance because they don't have those skills to take those jobs. I will always remember the Premier said in one of his first speeches: there are more than enough jobs in the Northwest Territories for everyone. The problem is that the people from the territories often aren't filling those.
I have to disagree a bit with my colleague from Yellowknife North, who said that this is a bit outside the department, training. I think the department should be very heavily involved with training. I think that we need to start breaking down some of these walls between education, between housing, between infrastructure, and come up with an actual plan to move this territory ahead in terms of training. Otherwise, we are just going to be spinning our wheels for years to come.
What does the department have in terms of a comprehensive, written plan that they can show the committee, so that they can prove that they are taking this seriously? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Simpson. Minister Schumann.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will start, and maybe the deputy will want to add something. You know, as I clearly said, we are working with industry players on all these things, especially these larger projects moving forward. ECE is the trainer of the Northwest Territories. That is their position. That is where those questions should go, but with saying that, we work very closely. We are not spinning our wheels. We work very closely with the Minister and her department on how we can implement training opportunities and all these projects.
It is at front of mind with all the communities when these projects come to their regions. It is no different than the Tuktoyaktuk to Inuvik Highway or the Canyon Creek project. Even, as I said, to lead a project with the Bear River Bridge, Mount Gaudet has already approached us even right, like, within a matter of a couple of days of the announcement of that money. So we are working closely with them to help figure out a way they can capitalize at a local level on these opportunities.
A big role of that is how ECE is involved in these projects with us. We work closely with them. I don't know if there has to be a comprehensive plan altogether, as the Member says. ECE is mandated to implement training across the Northwest Territories, but we do recognize the fact that there are benefits that can be brought to these communities and the residents of the Northwest Territories through our projects. It is not something that we sleight of hand. It is something that we take very seriously and work closely with the Minister in her department. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister Schumann. Mr. Simpson.
Thank you. I guess my issue is that, if there is not a plan, all we have is what we hear. I can't really quantify the things that have been said. There are no goals that we are trying to reach. They are all one-offs. You know, I was at the mining symposium in Hay River a couple of months ago and KFN, the former chief of KFN was there, and he said that, for the Hay River Bridge, which is being reconstructed on KFN traditional territory, there were no training opportunities available for their members. Perhaps sometimes there are, but sometimes there aren't, and that is part of the problem.
Again, this is one of those things that I have been bringing up at every business plan and every budget debate since I have been here. I think that it is something that the department really needs to start looking into, otherwise we are going to be stuck in the same place forever. The cost of our social services is going up. Our revenues are down. You know, we are facing some real economic troubles ahead. Unless we take this seriously, the future isn't looking very bright. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Nothing further.
Thank you, Mr. Simpson. Minister Schumann, did you want to comment on that?
I don't want to get into a big debate about it, but I think the Member should save his questions for the Department of Education when they get to it. I know that, as I have said, we work closely with them. There is cross-departmental stuff around these things. We have our own apprenticeship program within our department. We have our settlement maintainer positions. There are a number of things that we do around training, but I think his specific question is around: what are we doing about training people around some of these larger projects? As I have said, we work closely with the Department of ECE on this matter. I think there have been some great success stories out there, and we will continue to do so and work with the Minister and her department. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister Schumann. Mr. Beaulieu.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Going back to the local community roads. Further to that, I just got a little side tracked on the capital aspect of it. I have now seen the budget shown to me by one of our honourable colleagues here, so I am okay with the responses. The question on the winter road: I'm asking if this money can be used for a winter road. Could it be used, like, for example, today I spoke of a possible winter road from here to Lutselk'e. Could this type of money be used for a road that links a community to, say, Yellowknife? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Minister Schumann.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, we would entertain that application around that basis. One thing I want to point out: that is a very limited amount that we have in the community access program, $1.508 million. I can tell you that goes awfully quickly. It is an application-based, first come, first served, but the Member is correct that that money could be accessed in that manner if a community wishes to apply for it. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister Schumann. Mr. Beaulieu.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That is good news, but I do agree with the Minister that this would probably consume the entire budget with one project. I know that this is what is the mains and our opportunity to discuss the increase in this budget, would it be in that business planning time? I realize that. Still, going along the lines that my request to have a winter road constructed would be a part of capital, so I didn't make the link that it could be a part of O and M. I am wondering if the Minister sees, if that $1.48 million was fully subscribed, if the Minister would be able to, working with the FMB, increase that budget for the coming year? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Minister Schumann.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. As, you know, the Finance Minister is going to be the last person up in front of the committee, but with our limited resources that we have right now I suspect, if I took an application in FMB to increase this community access program funding, I would have a tough time doing it. I would support the Member if he would -- well, it is a little bit late now, I guess, but the next Assembly, if they need to see more money put on this, we are going to have to work through the business planning to try to increase that. If I remember correctly, I think we have already topped it up $500,000 since a previous year or two ago, but this money does go quickly. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister Schumann. Mr. Beaulieu.
Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Well, that is something to work on for me. It has increased quite a bit. I do appreciate that the department has been serious about looking at putting more money into this area because, maybe four or five years ago, it was $300,000, so it has grown quite a bit. It has become something that the communities really find a good program for short-term employment, even training the equipment operators and so on, so it is a very good program. I think that, in the future, the Assembly or the department could look at increasing that amount, maybe even doubling that amount to allow for larger projects which are not real capital projects because they melt at some time during the year, so it's not real infrastructure. I would just close by saying that I look forward to maybe the Minister having discussion with FMB, even if it's something that could be put off to the next budget cycle but something that would be considered in the future. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Comment noted. Mr. Blake.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just to add to the community access program, we know how successful it is. I am sure, as you can tell by the Member before me, it is underfunded. Like he mentioned, it creates a lot of employment in our small communities. Even before Christmas, I was told there is really not much funding left, which is a shame because there are a lot of good projects coming out. You know, most communities tend to wait until the actual season that they want to start the work, a lot of portage trails that people are cutting out, bypass roads. We really appreciate the increase, but it's pretty clear, even to $2 million, increase it to $2 million, that would make a big difference for the communities. As you can tell, if you look at the new year here, starting January 1st, you could probably tell the funds were already almost used up, so it's a clear indicator that we need to increase those funds. Will the Minister and the department look at the rough time of each year when this pot of money runs out? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Blake. Minister Schumann.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. All I can say as a comment to that is we can have a look at it through the next business planning process, but we don't know who the next government or the next Minister is. The one thing I do want to say about this fund, though, is it has been successful. We have been spending. There are a lot of good projects out there, helping these communities. I have always brought up, every time we talk with Members about this pot of money, that somehow let's find a way to marry it with the small employment fund that we have increased significantly for the small communities in the Northwest Territories. Between those two pots of money, I think we have done good things to help employment in the smaller communities across the Northwest Territories. There are always fiscal pressures on all governments, and, going forward, as I said, that will be up to the 19th Legislative Assembly, if we can increase the community access program again. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister Schumann. Mr. Blake.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am glad the Minister mentioned that because that is one thing we are trying to do, is combine the small employment fund with the community access fund, which would have gone a lot further, I believe. Right now, the way this fund is being managed, I know it's outside his department, so I will not go there right now. I think it would have gone a lot further if we did combine those two pots of money for the community access. It would have brought the fund up to way more than double what it is now. I think that is something for the transition committee to possibly suggest, that they double this fund. Would the Minister agree? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
