Debates of February 22, 2019 (day 59)

Thank you, Deputy Minister Guy. Mr. O'Reilly.

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I understand that this isn't wrapped up into one figure, and we see that in the business plan itself. The deputy minister talked about the figure for 2017-2018, I guess.

In that tracking, is there a way of breaking down the reasons for the carryovers as well? If we understand the reasons why there are so many carryovers, then we can start to address the cause. Are the reasons identified more than just the dollar figures? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Deputy Minister Guy.

Speaker: MR. GUY

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Certainly, when we see a project not progressing as planned, that would lead to a carryover, we track the reasons. If it is an issue around program design, in the client department, we would track that. If it is a reason around a contractor issue, whether it is a delayed winter road or a weather-related delay, we do track those types of issues.

Some of the carryovers are driven by the budgeting cycle in itself because of when the project gets approved, and by the time that procurement proceeds and we get through the award stage, there can be a bit of a lag that builds a carryover that usually disappears towards the end of the project, so where the project is in its actual cycle contributes to carryovers.

Some of the things I have spoken about in the past is just even project progression. Some projects, the larger ones, you can have monthly billings in the $2- to $3-million range when they are under full construction. It can be as simple as the contractor getting his progress payment claim in one month versus the next one. When we get to year end, whether that money is accounted for and the carryovers are not, after we passed the cut-off for payment, that money goes into the new year and it gets carried over. So there are lots of details, I guess, associated with it that can cause a carryover.

The ones we really focus on are the ones that are around projects that aren't proceeding on schedule and not proceeding, because our goal is to get public infrastructure on the ground and service for program delivery and for the public's use as quickly as possible once it is approved. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Deputy Minister Guy. Mr. O'Reilly.

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Yes, I appreciate the reasons provided by the deputy minister, and I think I have heard them before. I want to know, though: does the department systemically track this across all infrastructure projects? Do they categorize the reasons why there are delays across the whole spending that takes place within the department? The project that they manage? It is great that they track this on an individual project by project basis, but do they roll this up so that they can see where the problem areas are, the systemic problems? That is what I am asking the deputy minister: are the systemic problems identified, and are they starting to address them? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Deputy Minister Guy.

Speaker: MR. GUY

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Certainly, that's the goal of this process, is to find any systematic problems that are leading across more than one project. It is leading to some of those things that we have mentioned earlier today around adding capacity in the area of strategic infrastructure to free up line resources. That was one of those systematic problems we saw.

Also, understanding the capacity challenges at the front lines on the project delivery is one that we have also found was a systematic problem that we are addressing going forward. We continue to look for those. Some of them are process improvements and how we work with the Department of Finance and things like financial tracking and some of those broader business processes, which we are also looking for systematic challenges there that we can work across departments to address. So that work is going on. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Deputy Minister Guy. Mr. O'Reilly.

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Thanks for that description. I don't think I got an answer to the question. I am going to ask this directly to the Minister: can the Minister make a commitment that, in future business plans, there is going to be more than just a dollar amount of the carryovers? That there is going to be some explanation of the reasons for the carryover, categorization of those reasons, and how the department is becoming to address those? If it takes a page or something in the business plans, I think that is time well spent, so that we understand, and his department seems to better understand, why there are carryovers. Can the Minister make that commitment to include that kind of information in the business plans moving forward for his department? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister Schumann.

Wally Schumann

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think what I can commit to doing is I am going to have to talk to the Minister of Finance because, at the end of the day, the carryover will fall through him. I can commit to having a conversation with the Minister of Finance on if this is something that we can do in future budgeting cycles. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister Schumann. Mr. O'Reilly.

Thanks, Mr. Chair, and I thank the Minister for agreeing that he is going to talk to his colleague, the Minister of Finance. Look, I don't think this is rocket science. I think that it is probably a paragraph in your business plan. It is a table that shows the carryovers, where they might be occurring, and some reasons why they are happening. I don't know why the Minister of Finance would have to approve that going into a business plan, but if the Minister wants to chat with him and have that, that is great.

I think we need to get to the bottom of why this money is not going out the door on time and understand the reasons why, and develop a plan to address that. I just don't get that comfort level from the Minister that he is going to include that kind of information in business plans moving forward. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister Schumann.

Wally Schumann

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The reason I would say that I would have to talk to the Minister of Finance is because he is the one who dictates the format and the content of the business planning cycle, of what is in here. I guess I could commit to bringing something back in the next cycle, not in super great detail, but I think in a little more detail, probably a little more to my liking than the Member's liking, of what some of these conditions are of why there are so much carryover and variances on these things. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister Schumann. Mr. Simpson.

R.J. Simpson

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Recognizing that you will be reporting progress in the next few minutes here, I will keep it brief. I am looking at the business plan under strategic infrastructure development. I couldn't quite hear the conversation that just went on about that. Everyone in this room speaks sort of quietly, and so I didn't quite catch everything, but in the business plan, it talks about dredging and it talks about improving the railhead up to Hay River.

Now, would anyone in this division be tasked with following up on those, hopefully, initiatives? I mean, those have appeared in the mandate and they have appeared in every business plan, but I haven't really seen anything happen with, like, dredging in particular. Will that division be tasked with trying to track down some federal money, or is there federal money that could be used for that right now? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Simpson. Deputy Minister Guy.

Speaker: MR. GUY

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Those types of projects, where we are seeking federal funding, yes, there would be a role for the strategic infrastructure to assist in the application and the pursuit of that money. Those particular projects, we do have a number of asks in with the federal government already through the Ocean Protection Plan. We will continue to reapply, and the Strategic Infrastructure Division would be supporting those types of applications. So I guess the answer to the question is, yes, this capacity will help us do that work that has already been done in other areas in the department and the policy planning shop, and also in Transportation. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Deputy Minister Guy. Mr. Simpson.

R.J. Simpson

Hay River North

Thank you. I just wanted to make sure it doesn't get lost in the mix, because there are some very big projects here, and I know that dredging the port of Hay River might not be a priority for some people, but for my constituents, it is a priority. So I would like to see that move forward.

Mr. Chair, I move that the Chair rise and report progress.

Thank you, Mr. Simpson. A motion is on the floor to report progress. The motion is in order and is non-debatable. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

I will now rise and report progress. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort witnesses from the Chamber.

Report of Committee of the Whole