Thank you, Mr. Chair. I thought that the on-the-land healing was new federal funding, but we have taken $200,000 from mental health and addictions and put it into on-the-land healing? What was the rationale for that decision to move that? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister Abernethy.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. With respect to on-the-land healing increases and changes that we have made, we have heard from individuals that they would like to see more focus on some of the on-the-land programming, focus on after-care treatment and mental health and addictions. We have sought through the budgeting process an additional $400,000 that we have included in this line to take it from $1.1 million to $1.5 million, but we also took some of the money out of this particular area, out of the $450,000, $200,000 to support more on-the-land training programs focused on mental health and addictions. This is the new initiative that we have been talking about. We also took an additional $120,000. In total, we reallocated $330,000, which will take the amount of money for on-the-land healing from $1.1 million to $1.825 million, and $7.25 million of that is really focused on, really, the mental health and addictions on-the-land programming, to strengthen it. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister Abernethy. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you. I thank the Minister for that answer. I understand the $200,000. I understand the increase of $500,000, but, the $125,000, where did that come from? Where did you get that taken from? Was it out of this section or another section? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister Abernethy.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Some of those dollars came from a consultant position we had in the department which was vacant. Then we felt that we could get more bang for our buck, more benefit by rolling it into on-the-land program for mental health and addictions support with Indigenous governments. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister Abernethy. Next on the list, we have Ms. Green.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Standing Committee on Social Development is eagerly awaiting the mental health and addictions recovery plan. Where do we find the money in this budget that will implement the actions that are recommended in that plan when we see it? Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Green. Minister Abernethy.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Some of it is what we just talked about, but, for the most part at this point in time, we are planning to use existing and our own resources to fund some of the activities that we want to undertake in this particular area. From there, we will be able to determine what additional asks and what additional business cases are going to be necessary to seek additional funding, if appropriate. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister Abernethy. Ms. Green.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. It is hard to overstate how disappointed I am with that answer. We have been waiting since 2016 for this addictions and recovery plan to come our way, and now it doesn't come with a funding ask. All of the required actions are being funded from repurposed money. Do I understand that correctly? Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Green. Minister Abernethy.
Well, Mr. Chair, there is $400,000 in here. We believe that, initially, we can use some of our own internal dollars to start implementing these types of things, but we need to finish the action plan and then, from there, test some of the hypotheses and theories, and then we need to figure out whether or not a business case is necessary to seek additional funds. I am not going to say that additional funds aren't necessary. I am saying that we need to do the business case and be able to have a defendable business case to compete against all initiatives that the GNWT is taking forward. Right now, we believe we have enough money to get started in the upcoming fiscal year.
Thank you, Minister Abernethy. Ms. Green.
Mr. Chair, the wait to have this action plan completed and the compounding wait of seeing which initiatives are going to work, I found incredibly frustrating. This is not an area that we should be playing wait-and-see with. This is an area which I would like to see treated like Child and Family Services, where there was a leaping over of all the government slowdown processes to actually make things work immediately. Why is that not the case for mental health and addictions recovery? Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Green. Minister Abernethy.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. We take this seriously. This is a priority. This is something that we have been working on for some time. I mean it isn't without its investment. We have invested significant new dollars in the day shelter sobering centre to help individuals who are struggling, to make sure that they have a safe place. We have also added programming there that never existed before, which is available to help people find a path to wellness and take advantage of some of the programs and services that we have in place. The 2018-2019 budget for mental health and addictions was $17 million. There is significant money going into this, this particular situation. We need to make sure that we are getting maximum benefit for those dollars being spent, and that will help us demonstrate and build a business case that is solid and will help us seek additional funds in the future.
Thank you, Minister Abernethy. Ms. Green.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. When the standing committee submitted its report on the addictions tour that we did with the Minister about 15 or 16 months ago, it was clear to all of us that there needed to be money for after-care. The day shelter is not an after-care program, and, on-the-land, it may be an after-care program, but people talked about needing ongoing support to maintain their sobriety. They talked about the need to have somewhere to be discharged to, somewhere to live, to be discharged to, so how are these priorities captured in this budget? Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Green. Minister Abernethy.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. As an initial starting point, some of the on-the-land money that we have talked about today is actually intended to be used through Indigenous governments, for on-the-land care, after-care, those types of things. I acknowledge that, obviously, we need to continue to do work in this area. I hear the Member loud and clear. I do note that the draft action plan went to committee last week. We are hoping to have a sit-down with committee to go through that and get their feedback and input on that action plan to help us strengthen it and help us build the business case that is necessary in order to make arguments for funding where appropriate.
I think everybody recognizes that we have tight fiscal situations. We have to make sure that our money is being spent well, being spent wisely, and that we are actually getting benefit from dollars. Once we can confirm that, we will be in a far better position to demonstrate a need for additional money, if that is indeed the case.
Thank you, Minister Abernethy. Ms. Green.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. This job is making me very cynical. The fact that we have to do the budget today, but we don't get to talk about the Mental Health and Addictions Recovery Action Plan until next week means that we are not able to discuss the details today that are relevant to this budget. I find that the timing of this is unfortunate, if not directly purposeful.
I want to point out to the Minister that money that isn't paid upfront to support people on whom we have spent thousands of dollars to achieve their sobriety doesn't make any sense. We are talking about value for money and supporting people in their health and well-being. If we don't do that, then they continue to cycle through the system, and they require more service at the hospital, more service in addictions treatment, and so on.
What am I missing here? Why is this not a priority for funding right now? Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Green. Minister Abernethy.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am proud of this government. I am proud of the work that everybody in this building does. I think we all do an incredible amount of work in order to improve the lives and well-being of people in our House. I got to tell you; I take great offence to the Member's insults in suggesting that we don't care. I think that the Member's comments are deeply disturbing, deeply frustrating, and I think, frankly, she is insulting every Member of this House, not just myself, but the Members on that side and the Members on that side and, frankly, Mr. Chair, all of the hard-working staff who are investing time in their lives to try to make these things a reality and a priority.
This department cares deeply about the work that we are doing. We have made significant investments. We are making significant strides in improving mental health and addictions services here in the Northwest Territories. I am as frustrated as the Member that things move at the speed that they move, but they do move at the speed that they do, and we are trying to make improvements on a day-to-day basis.
We have made significant investments in this area, significant dollars have been spent in this area, and I think we owe due diligence to our residents to make sure that we are actually spending that money wisely and that we are spending it in the best way. To suggest that every dime that has been spent on mental health and addictions is spent in the right way and the only way to improve it is to spend more, I think is forgetting the fact that we have an obligation to ensure that those dollars are being spent wisely.
We will do that work, we will continue to make investments, and we will continue to take action to make improvements in these areas. I am sorry that it is not as fast as the Member wants, but we need to do things based on evidence and information as opposed to rhetoric and opinion. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister Abernethy. Ms. Green.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am all about evidence-based decision-making. It has been a hallmark of my time here to talk about that. I stand by my remark that I am cynical about the timing of finally producing this action plan after the budget itself will have been considered, but I don't see that we are going to go any further on this today.
I would like to know if questions about Avens are in community health programs, or are they in another activity area? Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Green. Minister Abernethy.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. They are.
Just in response to that last comment, I still take offence to the suggestion that we would hold back the draft action plan as some way to subvert the budget process. That is deeply insulting. We brought it forward to committee as soon as we had it done. It is a draft. There is still room to move on that, and frankly, I find that incredibly insulting.
Back to the original question, yes, Avens falls under this area.
Thank you. Next on our list, we have Mr. McNeely.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. This is not necessarily a question, but a note in observation to the increase as mentioned on the community programs on 177. I clearly hear the Minister's comments here recently. When I look back at healthcare progress and the delivery, I totally agree that we have made a lot of progress in that area.
As you know, in a couple of my communities back home, there has been quite an extensive amount of outburst from the youth community. As one of the front-line workers in receiving most of the phone calls, I have seen a lot of assistance from this department in the whole area of rehabilitation and reconciliation and individuals seeking medical care as well as sobriety assistance.
We have a system in place here with the bilaterals, with our land claim process, in Cabinet, so that is a venue for enhancing delivery of programs and, also, taking into account the new health facility in Norman Wells, as well as the new establishment of the Regional Wellness Council, an organization to improve delivery of healthcare in our communities in that region.
As a matter of fact, I am travelling home tomorrow, and I got the invitation to attend the evening session for the Renewable Resources Council tomorrow evening, which I am looking forward to, because I have seen progress made in that area of communication, which gives me confidence there.
There are a number of programs that I like here, and I see access to resources to assist in the mitigation of some of the social problems that we are having our youth and elders experiencing. I am quite satisfied with this summary. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. McNeely. Minister Abernethy.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to thank the Member for his comments. I didn't hear a question, but I will note for the Member that, on this particular page, you will see an increase of $782,000. That is for the Norman Wells health centre and long-term care to help us continue to roll out the services there.
Thank you, Minister Abernethy. Any further questions, Mr. McNeely?
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I do look forward to working with the Minister of this department to continue to support improvements to the services here. I am still mindful that there are clients in the area of dementia and services that are not delivered at the new facility in Norman Wells but delivered elsewhere. I look forward to working with the Minister on those two fronts here. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. McNeely. Minister Abernethy.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I look forward to working with the Member as well.
Thank you, Minister Abernethy. Mr. McNeely.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just for the record, it is dialysis and dementia services for clients that I look forward to working with the department in trying to seek some solution towards. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. McNeely. Minister Abernethy.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. As the Member knows, when it comes to dementia, we have one facility to provide services to our residents who have dementia. Obviously, that facility is full, and we are always looking for ways to support our people the best that we can. The long-term care facility in Norman Wells is certainly going to help us with that.
With respect to dialysis, I think that everybody in this building is aware of the pressures that we have under dialysis and the work that we are doing. Having said that, we are not looking at expanding our chairs right at this point. We are looking at exploring other options to provide dialysis, other than providing it just through hospital-based care. There are options there. I think Member Beaulieu has raised some options. I think the Member from Hay River has raised some options. We are exploring those options. That includes things like peritoneal dialysis and other things, so we certainly want to work with the Member and his communities.
Thank you, Minister Abernethy. Mr. Beaulieu.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As you know, I speak a lot on strategic spending and leveraging of money, and one of the items that I speak a lot on is early childhood development. In this budget, we have an Early Childhood Development Action Plan, and we have an early childhood development breastfeeding fund and a Healthy Family Program. I see there is a limit to the amount of money in those programs. Why is that? Yes, maybe I will just ask the question: why is that? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Minister Abernethy.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. One of the challenges with the budget that you see in front of you, as I said earlier when I was talking about the expansion of Stanton services and the money that is needed to do that, is a lot of the money for an initiative, call it early childhood and development, is spread throughout the budget in many, many different areas. If we were to look at this page, we would say, "Oh, there is X amount of dollars" and that sounds like that is it, but really, there is more. I think, if we actually were to quantify the types of money that we are spending on early childhood development, whether it is the Healthy Family Programs or many of the other things we are doing, we probably have about $9 million in investment. I am happy to break those dollars out for the Member and provide him sort of a summary of all the areas that we are spending these dollars on, but in a quick conversation with the deputy, we think it is about $9 million. Rather than trying to articulate where each one of those is, maybe I will provide that information to the Member in writing, because it is going to take me a bit of time to break it down and sort of articulate it across all the different areas, if that is all right.
Thank you, Minister Abernethy. Mr. Beaulieu.
Yes, I am comfortable with that. I am also comfortable with just what the Minister is telling me here. I am pleased that it is that much money. I have always indicated that early childhood development spending has a return of 10:1, so $9 million could see a return of $90 million over a period of time on the early childhood or the children who we are spending that money on, so I am happy to hear that. I am satisfied with the response. I don't need anything in writing. If it is $9 million, then I would suggest that we spend a lot more than that. Considering the great returns that we have, I think that setting up opportunities for kids to be productive citizens and graduates, educated people who return into our society, and if we could spend a little more money on them now, I think we would see great returns, but I am happy with that response and I have nothing further. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Minister Abernethy.
