Nothing further, noting the clock. Thank you.
Thank you. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The main estimates include a budget of $1.417 million for the first year of operations of 911 emergency services. Can you please give the Members a breakdown of this figure? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. As I mentioned when we went before standing committee, there are going to be some positions that need to be put in place, so we're going to be looking at emergency medical dispatchers, an emergency system officer, a manager, as well as premiums for shift work that people will have to do. There are also ongoing operation costs, such as program requirements of, for example, leasing spaces, communication, and obviously our information technology systems. Then obviously there are going to be one-time start-up costs that are initial training, as well as signage. I could give this document with the specific breakdown to Members, of what this is going to entail. As all Members know, this is before the House, and I know we will hopefully pass the reading in the clause-by-clause in the next little while, but we will share that detailed information with Members. Thank you.
Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, and I greatly appreciate the Minister's willingness to share that information with us. What does the department estimate the ongoing annual costs of this service to be, moving forward? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Minister Moses.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. As I had mentioned in standing committee when we did do the presentation, we are going to be doing a reporting system as well as evaluating the program itself. As it is going to be the first year of operations, we really don't know. As we evaluate the program, we'll have a better understanding of what those costs are going to be, and definitely going through the process what we're doing right now, of putting it through the budgetary system. Right now, we're really not sure what we're going to be looking at, but if we were going to put it on average, it would be about $1.2 million a year. Like I said, we'll be evaluating this program. Who knows how many calls we'll get, but that's a commitment we've made. We will do the evaluation.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Moving on to another area, here, I'd like to acknowledge the budget contains $185,000 for ground ambulance and highway rescue. I thank the Minister and the department for ensuring funding for this important service that benefits everybody who travels on a NWT highway. Has the department given any consideration to how the needs in this area are going to grow as a result of the highway construction projects that are under way or in the planning stages for the GNWT? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. This is something that has really taken the forefront over the last couple of years in terms of how we provide ground ambulance and highway rescue. With the new infrastructure that is being proposed, obviously, we are going to be taking that into consideration. Protection and safety of our residents, not even our residents, but people who travel throughout the North, even our tourists, we want to make sure that they are able to feel safe driving on our highway systems. As Members know, we did put out an RFP to get some work done. That didn't work out initially as planned, and we are focused on getting that report completed, but this is something that, like I said, and I'm sure we're going to hear this weekend when we sit down with the NWT Association of Communities. Obviously any new infrastructure that we build in the Northwest Territories is something that we're going to focus on, and how we can address that.
Just for a head's up, we were just recently at an FTP meeting in Edmonton on emergencies, and we did make sure that this was a priority that we did lobby and focus on the federal government to come and see how we live and travel in the North, and that it needs to be addressed. Thank you.
Thank you. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I thank the Minister for that. Yes, I totally agree that we have all this new infrastructure and, you know, with new infrastructure come issues such as accidents that happen. Especially with tourists; they don't understand that you come up with a bike, and we're on gravel highways in some parts, so I'm looking forward to the department and hearing how we can actually enhance this. Because I know, in my riding, the community of Fort Simpson is actually the one that looks after it and, you know, it's a huge cost to them and they work on it. They're very good at it, so I have to give them credit for that. So I thank the Minister and the department. There will be no further questions from me in this area.
Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Municipal and Community Affairs, public safety, operations expenditure summary, $2,931,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. Moving on to activity 5, regional operations. This can be found on pages 346 to 350. Mr. Testart.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Let's talk about the community government funding formula that currently has the $32-million gap. The Minister is committed to a strategy; that strategy has been committed to for quite some time. Can we get more details on that strategy and any costs associated with it? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister Moses.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. As Members are aware, I did give a Minister's statement earlier today about the work that we are doing with the municipalities, trying to address that gap. I have said it openly to all Members here this afternoon, that I really don't think we're going to be able to address that gap during this government. I'm not tying the hands of any future governments, and we will have a strategy. As one of the Members asked earlier today, we will have that strategy report ready for tabling in the May-June sitting. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister Moses. Mr. Testart.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just want to get at what I think is the real heart of this issue. This is not a shortfall created by any other calculation than the one that the GNWT has created for itself to follow, with consultation from the NWTAC. Is that correct? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister Moses.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. As a government, we have a lot of priorities. You look at every department that we are having discussions with, whether it's Health and Social Services, Education, Housing, and, our partnerships that we have with MACA. This is something that we have been working on since 2014. As I have mentioned, Mr. Chair, I have had chats with the executive of the NWTAC and have a good understanding that this is something that is going to be hard to fix in terms of the funding gap, but we have made some really significant improvements in terms of the work that has been done to address the needs of some of our municipalities. Just to bring it to the forefront, a lot of these priorities are really coming out of our bigger centres. How do we work and fix things when addressing some of our issues with our small communities is something that needs to be discussed. I am sure we are going to have a really good heartfelt discussion this weekend when we sit down with the mayor and council and our elected officials with NWTAC this weekend. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister Moses. Mr. Testart.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Standing Committee on Government Operations, which has oversight over this department, has also spoken with many municipal leaders in the course of our consultations on various pieces of legislation. One consistent message that comes back to the committee every time that we consult on a new feature or new authority that the municipalities are getting is this municipal funding gap and the need to fill it. You can have as many conversations as you want, but it is not going away. I think that, unless the strategy is a costed strategy that indicates incremental funding year on year until the gap is closed, we are never going to get away from this problem. I will ask: does this strategy come with any dollars attached to it? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister Moses.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think that the Member has said it very well. It is going to be hard to close the gap, working with our municipalities. We do have a strategy to address the issue. I was open with Members today when I answered questions in the House, as well as made my Member's statement, and this is going to be the same dialogue that I do have with the NWT Association of Communities. Within this government, we have seven months left. I don't think we are going to be able to close that gap, but we have made significant impacts to address some of the needs of our municipality governments. We will continue to work with them and continue to support them. I think that all of that information was outlined in the statement that I gave earlier today. We will continue to work with the municipal governments to address this issue, and as I mentioned to the Members, we will be tabling a strategy in the May/June sitting. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister Moses. Mr. Testart.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to be very clear: I don't fault the department for this gap. We have heard a great deal from this department over my time in the legislature about how they struggle with their appropriations at times and that Members are asking for additional resources that they simply do not have. I see this more as a political decision. It is a decision to fund other priorities, and I think that the Minister has said something similar to that. My big problem with that is that this is not a request that has come forward. This is not a third party or a major infrastructure project that people are asking for that doesn't exist. This is an outstanding commitment that the GNWT has committed itself to in funding this formula. I am really confused as to why it is so hard to get that across. You have a funding formula that you worked very hard with community stakeholders to produce that says what the appropriate funding is per community throughout the Northwest Territories, and it is not being funded at that level.
The only appropriate course to take is to either fund it, to fund it incrementally, so that we know when the gap is going to be plugged, or to rebalance the formula so that it is more realistically achievable through the means of this government. Saying that when our revenues increase, we will be able to fund communities appropriately according to our own formula, well, I mean, you could say that when our revenues increase, we will build all of our infrastructure projects as well. That's obvious. We have an obligation. We have committed to filling that obligation, and we are simply not doing it. $8 million out of $40 million is not very much in the grand scheme of things, and these dollars, especially the infrastructure dollars, go directly to stimulating local economies, and not just in larger centres, but in smaller communities as well. This is money that is vitally important for the health and well-being of our local economies, and they employ people, create jobs, and create prosperity. It is crucial that we plug this gap and not just keep talking about it. We have been talking about it for three years. It is a priority. It is more than a priority; it is the fiduciary responsibility of this Minister and this government.
A strategy is not going to cut it for this Member. I don't think that a strategy is going to cut it for the communities that are looking for this additional funding. We need to do a better job, and this budget fails in this regard. Nothing further. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister Moses.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I didn't know that the Member spoke for all of the communities across the Northwest Territories, first of all. Secondly, it is not about stimulating economy, it is about addressing core needs that our communities have. Filling in the gap, as I mentioned earlier, when we look at what those gaps are, it is really the bigger centres: Yellowknife, Hay River, Inuvik, Fort Smith. We also want to make sure that we take care of our smaller communities, Mr. Chair. The Member spoke on it, and the reality is where our economy is right now, what our revenues are right now in the GNWT, and we have got to make sure that we make the best decisions across the Northwest Territories in terms of how we address this community government funding.
As we go through this budget, I just want to remind the Member that we also have other priorities: Health and Social Services, Education, and Housing, for one, my other portfolio. I just wanted to mention that. Really, when we come down to it, it is core needs for our communities across the Northwest Territories. We will be releasing a strategy in May/June. In my Minister's statement, I did mention that, over the last four years, there has been an increase of about $8 million, working with our municipalities and our leadership to address the priorities and needs that they have, as well. We are continuing to work with our stakeholders, and we will continue to work with our stakeholders moving forward to address these needs and priorities. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister Moses. Next on the list, we have Mr. Simpson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. It is my turn to beat a dead horse. This is an issue that I have brought up in this House many times. I have brought it up one-on-one with Ministers in their offices; I have brought it up as we were walking home after work; and it is the lack of available land for development in Hay River. I know that the Minister is well aware of this. I see ads in the paper every week put in there by the Housing Corporation looking for land to purchase in Hay River. I have talked to the health authority, and they can't recruit doctors and nurses to move to Hay River, because there are no places for them to live. The cost of rent is, in many cases, equal to what rent is in Yellowknife. We have a lack of housing. The land has been cleared years ago. It is ready to be developed, but there is no one who is able to develop it right now. I want to lay this out so that everyone knows why this is the case. People say, "Well, if there is a demand for housing in Hay River, a developer would step up and develop the land." In Hay River, we have the high-rise, and I know that the Minister is familiar with the high-rise. I think that there are 100 units or something, and a lot of them are vacant. I think most of them are vacant. When a bank looks at that, they say, "You have a high vacancy rate in your community. Also, you're in the Northwest Territories; you're a remote community. For those two reasons, we have no interest in lending you money to develop land. We don't see any payback in that." It is not like developers can just go to a bank, get a loan, and develop this property. I have talked to multiple developers of different sizes in Hay River, and I hear the same thing from all of them.
What is needed is for the town to develop this land, but what is required is some money. They are just looking for, I believe, an extension on their borrowing limit to fund development. As the lots are developed and sold, that money would be paid back. I don't see anything in this section here that would lead me to believe that is happening. This is not just in the town's best interest. This is in the best interest of the Northwest Territories. The GNWT wants to build a 48-bed long-term care facility. The Minister of Health has indicated that would be 60 jobs in Hay River. Those aren't all going to be people from town. People will have to move to Hay River. If they all bring maybe a spouse and a child, you could be looking at 200 people for that one project. If 200 people move to Hay River, they need to live somewhere. Right now, there is nowhere for them to live. If 200 people move to the Northwest Territories, that is $6.5 million in annual transfer payments from the federal government that the GNWT would receive.
We also have a fish processing plant that the government has committed to build. I think there are a couple dozen jobs there. There is a pellet mill that looks promising. I think there are another 60 jobs there, at least. Then there is Pine Point Mine, which could go through. We could have 1,000 people in the South Slave in the next few years if these projects go through, but, right now, they have nowhere to live. We might see the mine setting up a camp instead of setting up in the community or having people buy homes in the community, which would mean more fly-in, fly-out workers. I am highlighting this once again for everyone because this is an important issue, not just for Hay River but for the territory. We have an opportunity to support a community and support economic growth in the territory, something that we always talk about. I don't see it in this budget. I know that the Minister has met with the town. I understand that there are some next steps that are being taken. I would like to know if the Minister could let me know what the timeline is for those next steps and when we can expect a positive response to this request. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you for the long question there. Minister Moses.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Member is correct. We did have a meeting with the last administration and, most currently, with the new administration and the new mayor and her staff. I would say the next steps: we did give some direction for the interdepartmental group committee to work with the staff over with the Town of Hay River and get us some information before we can make any decisions. Really, there isn't a timeline that I can commit to, but I will inform the Member that we have had those discussions, and it is something that we have discussed. One of the discussions is also looking at a phased-in approach in terms of what is needed in Hay River.
On the other side of things, with the housing issue, I know that we are working with the community to address looking at the community housing needs and plans should certain things happen. Really, we need to make sure that other things are confirmed with all the economy and industry but also, like I mentioned, just continue those discussions on what is needed right now. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister Moses. Mr. Simpson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thanks for the answer. I would like a timeline. I would like to see this happen within the life of this Assembly. The town doesn't have the money to develop the area that they want to, but they do have money to knock down probably the most beautiful green space in Hay River and build a few lots there. I think that is the plan if this doesn't go through. It is going to affect the quality to life of residents there. We have this beautiful trail system, kilometres of trail through the forest, right on the river, that is going to get bulldozed to make room for this much-needed housing.
Can I get a commitment from the Minister? I guess I am not even sure what I am looking for a commitment for because this has been going on so long, and I don't want to rush them through it because I want to make sure this is done right, but I need this done, we need this done, sooner than later. I am just working this through, here. This would have to be done through supplementary appropriations, I guess. How about this: can I get a commitment that we will get this funding done in the life of this Assembly? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Simpson. Minister Moses.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. As I mentioned, we do have the interdepartmental committee that is working with the staff and the mayor of Hay River. We have to wait until we see what comes out of those discussions. I can't commit to a timeline. This is an interdepartmental commitment, so I will have to also chat with my Cabinet colleagues moving forward. What I can let the Member know: we have had those discussions. We will continue to have those discussions. Moving forward, we will see what our next steps are, and we will keep the Member informed. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister Moses. Next, we have Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. During business plans, the Minister advised the committee that the department would be undertaking review of the North Slave regional office and look at service delivery requirements and needs of the community governments. Has the department started this work? Thank you.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, we are looking at getting that work done. We did have some of our senior management at headquarters. We are very busy. I made sure that we are addressing those issues with the Member and the concerns that he brought forward. We will get that information to the Member as soon as we can. Thank you.
Thank you. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Can the Minister give us a timeline when he feels that will be done? Thank you.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. As we are debating the budget here, we will definitely get it done in 2019-2020. The sooner that we can get it done, the better. That way, we can continue to provide services to the South Slave region. As committed to other Members, we will make sure the Member is kept up to date on how we are moving forward on this. Thank you.
Mr. Thompson.
