Thank you, committee. Please turn to the next activity, beginning on page 84, water management and monitoring. Comments or questions? Mr. Vanthuyne.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Recently, we have seen some correspondence come in to some Members with regard to groups and different organizations that have been concerned with the Site C dam in BC. I know that we have a transboundary agreement with British Columbia and Alberta, and this is, of course, the Peace River that is affected. I am wondering if the Minister can give us some insight as to what effects the Site C dam has with regard to our transboundary agreement with British Columbia, and do we have any concerns or any need to be concerned with regard to the development of the Site C dam? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Member is absolutely correct. There is a lot of concern down the valley about the water that is coming from BC, and then there is concern with the Site C dam project. We had signed a transboundary water agreement with both Alberta and British Columbia in 2015, and the intent of these agreements was to promote the effective transboundary water management and ensure that water that is flowing into the NWT remains substantially unaltered in quality, quantity, and the rate of flow. Implementation of these two agreements is currently under way. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Mr. Vanthuyne.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks to the Minister for giving some description on the transboundary agreements and what our expectations are from them, but, knowing that now we have these boundary agreements in place, do we have any reason to be concerned, based on those agreements, with regard to the development of the actual Site C dam? Have we shared any concern with the BC government that a dam such as this will potentially impact our aquatic ecosystem, I guess, if we want to call it that, or even our subsistence harvesting? Do we have any concern in that regard? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. There is always concern when there is water flowing into the NWT from other jurisdictions, and that is one of the reasons we signed a transboundary water agreement with them. Our officials participated in a three-year environmental assessment review process and provided recommendations to the Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency about potential downstream impacts from this hydro expansion project. Part of that is a community-based monitoring program. I think there are 40 sample sites as part of our community-based water-monitoring program, and there are 22 communities as part of the community-based monitoring program. Obviously, we are concerned. As to actually if we have any say in it, my understanding is it flows through Alberta and then into the Northwest Territories, so we continue to monitor that, and we will make our views known. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Mr. Vanthuyne.
Okay. So, then, it seems to me that we are quite confident that the transboundary agreements are adequately covering off, confidently covering off, on any concerns that we might have as it relates to the development of the Site C dam. I am happy to hear that we are going to keep monitoring that. What about further transboundary water agreements? I know that Saskatchewan waters and Yukon waters are clearly borders that we also have good reason to be concerned with. Have we or are we in the midst of negotiating agreements with regard to transboundary watersheds with Saskatchewan and the Yukon? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Dr. Dragon.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. With all of these agreements, we have three existing transboundary agreements right now, with Alberta, British Columbia, and the Yukon. I will just take you really quickly through them. In terms of Alberta in 2018, the 2016-2017 Alberta-NWT annual implementation report was released, and work is under way for the 2017-2018 report. In British Columbia, in 2018, the NWT and British Columbia released an implementation highlights report that outlines the work completed between 2015 and 2017 towards bilateral implementation. Within the Yukon in 2018, the NWT has been negotiating with the Yukon towards updating our transboundary agreement that was signed in 2002. It is expected that that agreement will be completed within the life of this Assembly. Finally, with Saskatchewan and Nunavut, the division has initiated discussions with Saskatchewan, and right now Saskatchewan is in a legal review, in terms of their agreement. As well, Nunavut, Nunavut has to come up with a water strategy before they can get into negotiations with us. So, once they do that, then we would get into those transboundary agreements with both of those jurisdiction. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Seeing nothing further from committee at this point, I am going to call a five-minute recess. Thank you, committee.
---SHORT RECESS
I now call Committee of the Whole back to order. Committee, we were in ENR, activity 5, water management and monitoring. Comments or questions? Mr. O'Reilly.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. I think that I heard from our friends here that, in water management and monitoring, there was an $85,000 reduction in water research and studies and a $50,000 reduction in travel. I am wondering how that is impacting our ability to negotiate the Transboundary Water Agreements. Maybe I could start with: have there been any new agreements signed during the life of this Assembly? Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. In my time as Minister, I have signed one Transboundary Water Agreement, and I believe that that was with Alberta, but I inherited the portfolio, I believe, about a year and a half into this Assembly. We have three existing Transboundary Water Agreements right now with Alberta, British Columbia, and the Yukon, but I believe that the other two might have been signed in the 17th. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. That was my understanding, that there haven't actually been any signed during the life of the 18th Assembly. You can see it even on page 85 of the main estimates, where water partnerships and agreements has a $200,000 reduction between 2018-2019 and those proposed for 2019-2020. Even if you go back further in time, the budget was higher. Are these progressive cuts over time affecting our capability and capacity in terms of negotiating and signing these arrangements and implementing them? Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The short answer is that it doesn't. I think that Dr. Dragon gave an explanation before about the fact that we are trying to use a lot of video conferencing now when we are having some of these discussions, but there is always going to be a need for some face-to-face conversations. I believe that there is still some money that is available for that. No, we don't believe that it is affecting our ability to try to negotiate these Transboundary Water Agreements, and if there comes a time when we feel that it is affecting our ability, then I am sure that ENR will come back to the FMB. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. I am, of course, just trying to find what it said in the mandate commitment. I think that the understanding was that we were going to actually have all of these remaining agreements signed off, including ones with the Yukon and Nunavut and so on. How come we are not making as much progress on these as we had anticipated at the time that the mandate was put together? Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. We would like to try and make as much progress with our partners as possible. We are always prepared to go to the table and do some negotiations. Negotiations involve two parties, and if our other party is not getting to the table as quickly as we would like, then that affects our ability to get this work done. I said before, when I was responding to the Member's question, that I know that I signed the one Transboundary Water Agreement with Alberta. My understanding is that a final BC-NWT agreement was also signed in 2015, and we are holding an information session with Nunavut about the process and progress to date with respect to the Transboundary Water Agreement. ENR met with the Government of Saskatchewan to discuss a Saskatchewan-NWT agreement for shared waters. The final Yukon-NWT agreement was signed in 2002, and parties to the existing agreement met in March 2018 to discuss the existing Yukon-NWT transboundary water agreement. I think I took a long way to respond to the Member's question about whether it's affecting our ability or not as far as the negotiations go, and the short answer is that we do not believe it is. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. So, yes, the mandate commitment is we will negotiate Yukon, Nunavut, and Saskatchewan toward the completion of a transboundary water agreement, so does the Minister expect, then, that by September we are going to have negotiated transboundary agreements with Yukon, Nunavut, and Saskatchewan? Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. My understanding is, with the Yukon, we are expecting to have updated agreements to be completed during the life of this Assembly. My understanding is Saskatchewan is going through a legal review, and Nunavut is doing some water strategy work. The Yukon one will be updated. We will see what happens with the legal review out of Saskatchewan. I am not sure where Nunavut is at. I would like to see them all done by the life of this Assembly, seeing as it was a mandate commitment, but sometimes we do what we can to try to expedite our end; we just need our partners to work with us to get their end of it done, as well. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just want to go quickly to Site C again. We are having an effect with the Bennett dam. When it opens and closes, we see water levels come up and down there. With Site C have other provinces or First Nations people come to the government or the department and asked them for their help to deal with this situation? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Of course it is a concern, as I mentioned earlier, about the dams that are going there and the water flow to the territory. We see it up in the Beaudel, where the water level sometimes fluctuates up and down. I know we have had some Aboriginal governments who have come to us say that they do have a concern with that and want to know how we plan on dealing with it, so we have been trying to work with them to assure them that the Government of the Northwest Territories is doing what we can to bring their concerns forward. At the end of the day, I believe the decision is kind of out of our control because it is in BC, so we just have to make the case to these particular jurisdictions that it's having an effect on the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Seeing nothing further from committee, I will call this activity. Environment and Natural Resources, water management and monitoring, operations expenditure summary, $9,349,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. Please turn to activity 6, wildlife, starting on page 88. Comments or questions? Mr. O'Reilly.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. The first day of this sitting, I asked the Minister about the status of the Bathurst caribou range plan, and I still do not have an answer, so I will try again. Can the Minister tell me what's happening with this range plan? Thank you.
Thank you. Dr. Dragon.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. With the Bathurst caribou range plan, right now one of the things that we are working on is ensuring that we have very much detailed any of the industrial activity that could be potentially going on in the North and making sure that we have included that within our model. We have been doing the Bathurst caribou range plan for the last four years, where we have been looking at, with our Indigenous governments and our partners, to be able to come up with a robust plan. I think we are just about there. We have brought in the contractor who was originally doing the modelling work for us, who would look at any of the cumulative effects of any development in that area. Because, the range plan, it is right in an area of potential development, we just want to make sure that we have had all of that type of potential activity put into the range plan before we release it. It's very much imminent in terms of its release. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. Yes. I was involved in starting the work on that before I even arrived here, so I am worried that this is taking way too long while the herd continues to decline. The Minister, in response to questions from my colleague earlier today, talked about the need to develop a plan. That is the plan for the Bathurst caribou herd. Everybody was involved in making it. How much longer is it going to take to get this thing approved, and does it have to go through Cabinet? Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. My understanding in talking to the deputy is that within a month or so we will be able to bring it to Cabinet and get Cabinet's input. Then I believe it will go out to the public afterwards; go out to committee, then the public. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Good catch. Mr. O'Reilly.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. I am not sure what the deputy minister means by having to detail industrial activities and getting the contractor to do more modelling work. That is all fine and dandy, but, meanwhile, the caribou herd continues to decline. Most importantly, there is not one cent of new money in the budget for the caribou crisis. Why is there no new money in the budget for the caribou crisis? Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. We recognize the severity of the declining caribou herd. We heard it throughout our tour of the Tlicho, and we heard it from the Yellowknives, as well. I have instructed the department, as I was responding. I have directed the department to come up with a plan to address a lot of the issues that we have heard about. I think in response to an oral question before, I said that we are looking at trying to have this work done as quickly as possible and have it come forward in the form of a supplemental if need be. On top of the ongoing work that we do as part of our regular budgeting process on the caribou, I have directed the department to look for additional funding, have put in a request for additional funding, to expand on the work of the caribou, so we would like to see that come forward here in the form of a supplemental sometime during the life of this Assembly. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. Yes, I really look forward to seeing what this supplemental looks like, but the plan doesn't actually require new money to do some of the things that are already set out in there. Offsetting, mobile caribou conservation measures, I don't think that that actually requires a lot of money to do, so when is the department going to start doing some work on protection of habitat instead of just concentrating on wolves and harvesters? Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
