Thank you. Minister.
Thank you. I frankly don't know if there is or not, but I am advised by Mr. Hagen that he doesn't think there is.
Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. I would hope that the department would look into that. Can someone tell me: how much is the Tlicho government contributing to this effort? Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Mr. Hagen.
To my knowledge, they are not putting in any money for it. They did put some dollars in, along with the federal government, for doing a land use plan on their private lands, but they are putting very little into this process, although they are a full partner in it. They are cooperating. They have, obviously, all of the knowledge that is required for the traditional knowledge and the regions that are sacred to them, that should be protected. So their contribution isn't necessarily dollars, but what they are doing is invaluable to ensuring that we get a proper land use plan on public lands. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. Okay. Can someone tell me: is the result of this going to be a legally binding land use plan? If so, under what legislation will that authorization lay? Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Mr. Hagen.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. At the end of the day, it will be legally binding, signed off by the Tlicho government, the Government of the Northwest Territories, and the federal government will sign it, and it will be a legal document. As to legislation, I would have to get back to you on exactly how to see that going forward. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. Okay. I am going to leave that one alone for now. I remain concerned that we are spending money on this without the federal government being at the table. I want to move forward on a couple of other areas in here. Can someone explain to me why there has been no progress on developing policy legislation to help prevent more public liabilities? There is a unit, I think, located in here, securities and project assessment. It was announced with great fanfare by the previous Minister, and nothing seems to have happened. I am not aware of any policy on mine site reclamation that replaces the federal one that we have somehow endorsed. We are not going to see a new Waters Act. Maybe there might be something in the Public Lands Act. Where is there any policy or legislation that is going to improve and prevent more public liabilities from happening? That is a mandate commitment. Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. This is a complex and involved area that has been alluded to by the Member. On the issue of securities, if I might address that, we believe that we have addressed most of the issues identified in the 2012 Auditor General's report on federal mining securities management and programs that transferred to the GNWT with devolution. We are currently completing work on the report's priority recommendation, a securities tracking system to support regular reviews of securities amounts and closure plans for major projects. I see that we are currently holding $644.8 million of land and water securities in cash and non-cash forms. We do realize that this is an important area. The department has updated the securities provisions in our land management legislation. This will be included in the bill that we have introduced during this sitting. We do recognize also that securities management is a shared responsibility among the GNWT department, the federal government, Indigenous landowners, and so on. We are doing work in this area. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Any closing comments on that, Mr. O'Reilly?
Thanks, Mr. Chair. I might have to get put back on.
If you want to get put back on the list, I will give you a second round. Your time has expired for this round, so we will put you back and start the clock fresh. Mr. O'Reilly.
Mr. Thompson?
Okay. I guess Mr. Thompson also wants to be put on the list, so we will get to him first, and then Mr. O'Reilly, unless someone else needs to get on there as well. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will try to be brief on this one here. In regard to the cabin leases, I know that we have reached out to the Indigenous groups to get them to work with the department. Can the Minister advise us how the work is going in that area? Thank you, Mr. Chair. I hope that is in this area.
Thank you. You've got a one-in-three shot. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am not sure if I clearly heard the question. Maybe I could ask the questioner: are we talking about addressing unauthorized and potential rights-based occupancy? Very well. Obviously, we don't condone the unlawful use of public lands, and we continue to take action regarding unauthorized occupants. We do recognize, however, that we must, of course, respect Aboriginal and treaty rights. We have reached out to Indigenous organizations to begin work to find effective ways to identify potential rights-based cabins. This work is in the early stages and will help the department take action regarding unauthorized occupancy. We need to know what is out there, if I can put it that way. That is why we reached out to Indigenous governments, to work on ways to determine which cabins are potentially rights-based cabins. Thank you.
Thank you. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am fully aware of that. I am just trying to find out what the uptake has been from the Indigenous groups. I have been aware that we have reached out to them. There have been letters. There have been presentations to the Indigenous groups. What has been the uptake with them to help us identify traditional cabins versus unauthorized occupancy on the land? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Mr. Hagen.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. We have been moving forward in the last couple of months, engaging in every region of the Northwest Territories with Indigenous governments, including in the ISR with IRC, identifying who is out in the regions that either have a lease or are on private land or have a right in their land claim agreement on public lands. It is a slow process, but everybody is cooperating in ensuring that we get the names, and that is one reason why we need the analyst doing mapping of all of the areas where the rights-based cabins are. Once we have that established in every region, then the rest of them who don't have leases will be unauthorized, and then we will be going after them. Preferably, the first action would be to get them into a lease. The last action would be compliance and taking them into court to evict them from territorial lands. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you. If I understand Mr. Hagen correctly, then, the Indigenous groups, land claim groups, or the First Nations groups, the regional councils, they have agreed to work with us and are moving forward, even though it may be slow, but they have agreed to work with us on this? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Mr. Hagen.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, that is correct. We have a lot of cooperation. There is a lot of understanding of what we are trying to do. We are actually trying to protect the people of the regions who have the right to a harvesting cabin and don't necessarily require a lease. The Department of Lands would like to see everybody in a lease, although not necessarily having to pay the full amount if it is a traditional cabin, but a lease would enable us to be better land managers. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Have we gotten written confirmation from these groups that this is what we are doing, or has it been a gentlemen's agreement? I guess that's the question, Mr. Chair. Thank you.
Thank you. Mr. Hagen.
Yes, it wasn't our intention to get a signed agreement. We are engaging and, in some instances, consulting and cooperating with each Aboriginal or Indigenous government in each region. As I say, we are getting great cooperation. They now understand why we would like to identify the rights-based cabins in the regions, and they have the same desire, that people who are not from the region or don't have a lease are unauthorized occupiers of the land. They would also like them removed or get them into a lease.
Thank you. Minister Sebert would like to add something.
Yes. I just want to add that, by our estimate, there are more than 700 structures on public land that do not have tenure. This is a problem throughout the North, and I understand that a pretty high percentage of these structures are actually in the area around Yellowknife. Now, some of these may include cabins that are associated with an assertion of Aboriginal rights.
It is a complex issue, but it is an important issue, because there are, as I say, hundreds of structures. Not all of those are cabins; they may be something less or something more than cabins, but it is an issue that is going to take time. It is complicated, also. Thank you.
Thank you. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I thank Mr. Hagen and the Minister for that. I understand it's a complicated issue, and so I just wanted to make sure I understood, because some organizations have said they do not want to do it. Some have come up with some really creative solutions, so I am just trying to understand how the department was working towards making sure things are dealt with properly. I am content with the answers I received here today. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Mr. McNeely.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. My contribution is more of an information statement here, just to share some light on the Sahtu land use planning. The organization shares office with the Sahtu Land and Water Board, and it seems to work out very cooperatively, operating both staff in the same building. Looking at the four settlement corporations here, to have one regime that is straight across the board that covers 66 percent of the territorial land quantum gives me comfort that the land use planning should go ahead so that it's all in compliance throughout forced settlement areas, with the same regime applicable to each department or each land area. I just share that with my colleagues here. Thank you.
Thank you. More of a comment from Mr. McNeely. Next on the list, Mr. O'Reilly.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. I realize I am the only thing standing between folks and dinner. I want to ask about the fabled project assessment policy, because it does not seem to be working out very well. The Tlicho All-Season Road, I guess it was used there, and the Mackenzie Valley Environmental Impact Review Board was highly critical of our government's involvement in that environmental assessment. Can the Minister confirm for me that the project assessment policy was applied to TerraX in their recent application for exploration in the Yellowknife area? Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Mr. Hagen.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Well, I guess for one thing, we have a difference of opinion. I think the assessment policy worked very well and was very successful in the Tlicho All-Season Road. We went through a very complicated environmental assessment. We got through it. It was signed off by the feds and planned off by my Minister, and it's now in the licensing and permitting, and that will be all done by fall, when, hopefully, they will be starting construction. As for TerraX, I think you are well aware that there was some delay in getting them a water licence, which they should have today, actually, but they have decided to cancel their program for the winter. Yes, we are going to use the assessment process where all departments are working together and Department of Lands is coordinating the regulatory process going forward with TerraX. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. The Minister would like to add something. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just want to let the Member know that the Department of Lands is coordinating a GNWT-wide review of the project assessment function to identify areas where we might make improvements and to identify priorities. Also, we are coordinating, the department, a GNWT-wide "lessons learned" exercise on the Tlicho All-Season Road environmental assessment, so we are looking at the past to make sure that we can make improvements on the future. My final statement is one I know will be accepted well by the Member: the GNWT manages its various roles as proponent and regulatory decision-maker to avoid any real or perceived apprehension of bias.
Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.
Thanks. That is great. I appreciate that sentiment from the Minister. I did want to reply to one of Mr. Hagen's comments. It's not me saying that the GNWT did not participate well in the Tlicho All-Season Road. That comes from the review board itself, in the developer's assessment report. The review board was highly critical of our government on the Tlicho All-Season Road. TerraX is not proceeding with its exploration this winter. This project assessment policy does not seem to be working very well. The Minister talked about how there is going to be a "lessons learned" coming out of the Tlicho All-Season Road environmental assessment. Has that been completed, and can the Minister share that with the standing committee? Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Mr. Hagen.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The fact that TerraX is not proceeding has nothing to do, absolutely nothing to do, with the policy at all. They decided not to go forward because they did not get a class B water licence in time. Part of that was the Department of Fisheries and Oceans holding up the process, not deliberately. Once they decide they are going to move forward, which I assume will be perhaps even this summer, then we will be back in with the policy and coordinating all of the departments together. So it works very well, and we will do a "lessons learned" on the Tlicho All-Season Road. Although, from where I sit, there are really not a lot of lessons to be learned. It was well carried out. It was successful. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
