Yes, did the Housing Corporation look at any other ways to try to make up that difference? It is a considerable sum of money, almost half of what is allocated for this year. Thank you.
Thank you. Mr. Martin. Okay, Ms. Green, could you please repeat your question for the witnesses? Thank you.
Sure, Mr. Chair. My observation is that, rather than having an additional $1.5 million available for modernization and improvements, there is actually $750,000 available. My question is: could the difference have been made up in another way, rather than reducing minor modernization and improvements? Thank you.
Thank you. Mr. Martin.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Housing Corporation, through the annual business planning process, does look at its overall fiscal framework and does integrate adjustments where needed. During that review process, it was decided that we would be adjusting the minor maintenance and improvement category at this time, without having to impact other programs and services. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you. Ms. Green.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I heard a decision was made, but I did not hear why it was made. Thank you.
Thank you. Who should I direct this to? Mr. Martin.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. One of the reasons why this particular line item was identified for an adjustment in that area was the fact that the Housing Corporation, also as part of the 2019-2020 business planning process, is reinvesting an additional $250,000 into this category, for priority fuel tank replacements. So we did identify that we were also putting money into this category as well as adjusting for other factors. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you. Ms. Green.
Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. So can the witness confirm that in fact decreasing this category had nothing to do with the money available in the federal bilateral? Thank you.
Thank you. Mr. Martin.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The adjustments in this category were not related to the bilateral agreement, with the exception of clarifying that there was an adjustment in this category for $372,000, a reduction adjustment, for declining CMHC operating fund in 2019-2020. The Housing Corporation will be reinstating that $372,000 in this category following the finalization of the three-year action plan with Canada. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you. Ms. Green.
Thank you. I am glad to hear that that's the case. Now, I realize that this is not the right page for this, but I heard the witness say that the money was going to be invested in fuel tank replacement, and, if I heard correctly, I do not see that the budget document supports that. The amount to be invested is the same as it was in the last fiscal year. Thank you.
Thank you. Mr. Martin.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So, as noted, there were a few adjustments in this particular account. At this time, given the fact that the $372,000 related to the CMHC declining funding is reflected in this account, there are more reductions in this particular line item as opposed to adds. So the net effect right now is a reduction, but, as noted, the Housing Corporation will be reinstating another $372,000 into this line item. It's still not going to get us all of the way there, but it will be a reinstatement as soon as the bilateral three-year action plan is approved. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Ms. Green.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. A couple of things: I did not realize that the bilateral action plan was not approved. I thought that it was a done deal. Is that not the case? Thank you.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you. It was approved, and we are going through the process of approving the budget here. Maybe through you, Mr. Chair, I will ask the president and CEO to give us a little bit more detail. Thank you.
Thank you. Mr. Williams.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Under the signing of the bilateral, each jurisdiction had to come up with a three-year action plan. Initially, it was due in the end of January. The fact that only six jurisdictions now have signed onto the bilateral, they gave us more time. We have until March 31st to submit the action plan. So it's in progress right now. We are finalizing it. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Ms. Green.
Thank you for that response, Mr. Chair. Finally, I would like to ask the Minister to make a commitment to restate this page in correspondence with the Standing Committee on Social Development so that we have a more accurate idea of the coming and going on page 373. Thank you.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Restate the page? Maybe a little bit more clarification from the Member. Some of the detail might be from some of the back-and-forth on the questions, but we could definitely provide the information that the Member was asking for. We are going through the budget process. Maybe a little bit more clarification, Mr. Chair, in terms of what restating of the page she wants? Thank you.
Thank you. Ms. Green.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. What I would like the Minister to do is to take the additional information given by Mr. Martin in his responses to my question and incorporate them into this page. I understand that the totals will be the same, but I am looking for some of the detail to be drawn out so that we understand. For example, we know that the minor modernization and improvements line is going to go up. Could he provide that detail in correspondence to the Standing Committee on Social Development? Thank you.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am not sure if we could really restate the page, because it has already been printed, but if the Member is fine with it, we can follow up with a supplementary letter on the breakdown of the detail of this. If a letter is fine with the Member and the committee, we would be more than happy to show that breakdown. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you for confirmation. Ms. Green.
Thank you. A letter that details what is going on on this page is what I am seeking, so if the Minister could provide that, we are good. Thank you.
Thank you. The Minister has stated that he will provide that. Seeing nothing further, I will call this activity. You know what? How about we just call a brief recess instead? Five minutes.
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I call Committee of the Whole back to order. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's just going to be a couple of quick questions in regard to increasing power to seniors. Can the Minister please explain why seniors are seeing this increase in public housing? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am thinking that the Member is talking about the user pay program that we have started up. Really, it is focusing on responsibility and self-reliance. We have seen a decrease in the amount of dollars that we have been putting into this subsidized program. Even though we are slow subsidizing it, there was better energy efficiency, and those savings that we have had have gone back into other programming. Maybe to go through a bit more further detail, I will ask, through you, Mr. Chair, the president and CEO to just give a little bit more of an update. Thank you.
Thank you. Mr. Williams.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The user pay electricity was put over a three-year period. I think that this was the last year of it, where public housing tenants are now paying their electricity bills. As the Minister mentioned, it is moving towards self-reliance, and eventually even preparing some of these tenants who want to get into homeownership. You have to pay your O and M costs for your house if you are a homeowner, so it is preparing people for the future.
One of the big things as a corporation that we have done over the years is making sure that all of our repairs and all of our new bills are very highly energy-efficient units, and the whole reason for that is to cut down on our operation and maintenance costs. That is ongoing, and it is a requirement under some of the new federal programming dollars, as well, that energy efficiency is a top priority when you make these investments.
We want to make sure that the tenants are self-reliant and are prepared to take some ownership in their home. It is going to improve their tenancy. One of the things that we say as a government is that we have the cheapest rents. In most jurisdictions, the rent is based on 30 percent of their household income. Our rates are based on 19 percent of the household income, so that is a big difference between the other jurisdictions. We are just having tenants pay some of their own way. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you. Maybe I wasn't very clear. I am talking about seniors. Are seniors lumped in with all tenants, or do we have a different system for our seniors? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Everyone is lumped in. There are other programs that seniors can apply for through other departments. I did table a senior planning study, as well, earlier this session, and I would encourage any seniors who are having any concerns to look at the options that they have in terms of supplementing their heating. Thank you.
Thank you. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am talking about power, but I think I understand correctly. Everybody is lumped in together, and it was over a three-year period. Did the corporation send out letters to the tenants saying that this is what is going to be happening? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, every tenant was communicated with in terms of the changes. Thank you.
Thank you. Mr. Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. That is great to hear. Can we get a copy of that communication so that we are able to share it with our constituents when they are asking these questions? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
