All those opposed, please rise. All those abstaining, please rise.
The Member for Yellowknife Centre.
While we're waiting for the results of the recorded vote, I just want to thank all the staff who have to stick around with us here tonight; the staff in the back, the guys in the booth, security, everyone else who is working here who I don't even know about. Sergeant-at-Arms, the Speaker, all of them.
The results of the recorded vote are: 14 in favour, zero opposed, one abstention. The motion is carried.
---Carried
Minister Abernethy.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'd like to move a motion that Bill 34 be amended by adding the following immediately preceding subclause 52(2):
(1.2) For greater certainty, the holder of a mineral lease must satisfy the requirements in subsection (1) in respect of an Indigenous government or organization identified under that subsection by entering into any agreement with the Indigenous government or organization, provided that the agreement
(a) contains terms in respect of benefits that will be provided to the Indigenous government or organization and its members; and
(b) otherwise meets the requirements of this act and the regulations.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. There is a motion on the floor. The motion is in order. To the motion. Minister Abernethy.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The intent of this motion is to clarify that a benefit agreement does not have to be a separate agreement. It is also intended to make clear that, as long as an agreement contains provisions providing benefits, it may meet the requirement under Bill 34. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Nadli.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Once again, I'm seeking clarity. I'd like to ask two or three questions to the law clerk. This is a territorial statute that we are considering at this point, is it?
Yes, Mr. Nadli, it is.
Mr. Nadli.
Thank you. Now, in speaking of Indigenous governments, the presumption is that Indigenous governments have section 35 rights. Is that at a constitutional or federal level?
Thank you. Madam Law Clerk.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Indigenous peoples have section 35 rights under the Constitution Act, and those are constitutionally entrenched to Indigenous people. They would extend to Indigenous governments, but that's also a fairly complicated issue. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Madam Law Clerk. Mr. Nadli.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. That's all, thank you.
Thank you. To the motion. Mr. O'Reilly.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. I can support this motion. I raised this issue when the Tlicho Government appeared before committee. Their land rights agreement actually contains provisions for the beginning, at least, of negotiations on a major mining project that is over $50 million in value, and there is a list of benefits, not unlike other ones that we've heard about here tonight, that a company has to at least initiate discussions with the Tlicho Government around. I said, "If the Tlicho Government actually reached an agreement under the Land Rights Agreement, do you think that would satisfy the requirements of the bill?" They thought that that would be the case, but they were interested in seeing some language around that. Presumably, that is what we have here.
It would be helpful to actually hear at some point from the Minister whether they actually consulted with the Indigenous governments in drafting this because there was a commitment made by the Minister during the clause-by-clause review that that was actually going to happen. I think this provides some greater clarity that this requirement for a benefit agreement with an Indigenous government is not on top of what may already be provided for in a land-rights agreement or perhaps some other arrangement that might be made outside of the statute itself. It is not clear to me who actually makes a determination that the requirements have been satisfied. I am going to hold off on that for right now.
When I raised this with the Minister and his staff during clause-by clause and even before that, they just weren't prepared to do anything about it, quite frankly. I don't know. All of a sudden, this bubbles up out of thin air that all of a sudden, the Minister wants to clarify this. That is great. I just wish that he had done this earlier in connection with the work that committee had done. I am pleased to see it here right now, this evening. Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Testart.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think this is a much-needed improvement, as well. I support it. It is important that we clarify this section because there was a great deal of confusion and not just amongst industry looking at the clause and trying to figure it out and providing submissions to the committee's public consultation but also when the committee consulted with Indigenous governments who were involved in co-drafting. There was some confusion as to what benefit agreements are.
I think this is a much-needed improvement to the bill. I think it shows that the Northwest Territories is a place where social licence is a very high priority for our industry, where they have taken great pains to ensure that the conditions contained in Indigenous land rights agreements are carried out to the letter and that benefits are provided to the people who have used the land since time immemorial. I am glad that we finally can turn the page on this in the legislation and we have provided certainty.
I may have more questions if this motion amends the bill. At this point, I am very pleased to see this, and I commend the Minister for bringing it forward. Thank you.
Thank you. To the motion. Minister Abernethy.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to request a recorded vote.
The Member for Great Slave, the Member for Yellowknife South, the Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes, the Member for Hay River South, the Member for Thebacha, the Member for Mackenzie Delta, the Member for Sahtu, the Member for Yellowknife North, the Member for Kam Lake, the Member for Nahendeh, the Member for Frame Lake, the Member for Deh Cho, the Member for Nunakput, the Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, the Member for Range Lake.
All those opposed, please rise. All those abstaining, please rise.
The Member for Yellowknife Centre.
The results of the recorded vote: 15 in favour, zero opposed, one abstention. The motion is carried.
---Carried
To clause 52 as amended. Mr. O'Reilly.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. With this new wording under clause 52(2), who determines whether this other agreement or arrangement satisfies the requirements of the act? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Ms. McLaughlin.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. We think that it operates with subsection 1 with the result that the Minister would have to be satisfied.
Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. I am still confused. Can I ask the law clerk who determines whether this other arrangement is satisfactory and what happens if there is a dispute? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Madam Law Clerk.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Ms. McLaughlin is correct. 52(1) provides that the holder of a mineral lease shall enter into an agreement for benefits that the Minister considers appropriate in the circumstances. It would ultimately be the Minister's determination. I do note that the section provides that the Minister may make regulations or that the agreement shall be entered into in accordance with the regulations. I would assume that it would be likely that the regulations will address some of the parameters around this. Although, it then goes on to say that it is the Minister's determination.
In terms of disputes, section 54(1), which we have not come to, would likely operate to resolve disputes that may arise about the new 52(1.2). Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Madam Law Clerk. Mr. O'Reilly.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. It looks like the Minister has the ultimate discretion again. After the clause-by clause review, he said they were going to do some more work on this part of the bill. Can the Minister confirm or tell us who he or his staff consulted with in drafting or bringing forward these motions here tonight to make this change to section 52? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. We engaged with the benefit working group with IGOs. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. This benefit working group, was this representatives of the Indigenous governments, the Intergovernmental Council secretariat? Did it include other Indigenous governments that are not members of the Intergovernmental Council, like Dehcho First Nations or Akaitcho? What is this benefit working group? Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. This advisory group comes from the Intergovernmental Council, and as part of that working group, as well, we talked to TAP, the Technical Advisory Panel, which consisted of the Dehcho and the North Slave Metis Alliance as well. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.
Thanks for that. I appreciate that, and I think that it shows that Minister followed through with his commitment. That's great, and I think that these sort of changes should and probably do require consultation with Indigenous governments. Can the Minister indicate whether there were any discussions with industry on these changes? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. We communicated with the Northwest TerritoriesNunavut Chamber of Mines on the nature of these changes as well and for general comments. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Any other stakeholders communicated with? Northwest Territories Association of Communities, NGOs, some of the parties that did make representations to the standing committee? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The short answer is no, because there was a short period of time since the clause-by-clause review. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
