Thank you, Minister of Infrastructure. Did you have further questions, Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh?
Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for that response. The muddied waters are a little more clear, now. It's always good to get some clarification on this, because this is probably one of the larger allocations of this ask, so it's important that we kind of get that clarification. I have nothing further after that, though. Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Are there any further questions on page 11? Seeing no further questions, does committee agree to move into the detail contained in the tabled document?
Agreed.
All right. So 2020-2021 Supplementary Estimates No. 2 (Infrastructure Expenditures), Department of Health and Social Services, capital investment expenditures, administrative and support services, not previously authorized, $4,881,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Activity two, health and social programs, not previously authorized, $34,439,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Total department, not previously authorized, $39,320,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Can you please turn to pages 12 and 13. I will now open the floor to general comments on the Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment, capital investment expenditures. Comments? Questions? Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm looking at the fish processing plant in Hay River, and $9 million. I know this went out for tender and then it came significantly over budget and we're carrying it on and there are some plans to adjust. I guess my first question is: how much of this is federal money? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Madam Chair. If I could turn that to Mr. Koe, please.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Koe.
Thank you, Madam Chair. It's a project funded under the Investing in Canada plan, so it is 75-percent funded under that by the federal government. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Koe. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm always happy to hear when things are 75-percent funded. This is one of the line items I have a bit of an issue with in that I'm always hesitant to approve something when we don't exactly know what it's going to be. I know there is some work to go out and adjust and see if we can get this back on budget, but I've spoken to a number of fishers, both on this side of the lake and in Hay River, who say this isn't exactly what they're looking for. I also know, with the passing of Stacy Linington, we have lost a significant amount of our previous fishing capacity and, you know, some of the great work that went into the revitalization strategy may not be met by this. So I'm looking for a sense of, if we approve this fish processing plant in Hay River, $9 million and it's funded by the feds, how much flexibility do we have to actually change what this project looks like? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Minister of Finance.
Madam Chair, I suppose the simple answer to that is that it depends at what stage of the project we're at. My understanding, and I'm eyeing up the Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment, is that I think we're still at a fairly early stage. She's nodding at me, yes, so that all accords with my understanding, as well. Therefore, as such, if we're at an early stage, Madam Chair, then we're at a stage where those plans can still be modified and managed while still not losing the opportunity to make use of this federal investment. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. My other understanding of this project is that I recognize we need more fish processing capacity, but by putting it in Hay River you really severely limit a fisher's ability and you end up over-fishing a part of the lake because they simply have to travel to Hay River. Where the second part of this line item comes in, the $500,000 for Great Slave Lake commercial fishery remote collection stations, and I recognize that this is largely an ITI issue and very specific, but can I get a sense of where we are expected to install remote collection stations? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I don't know that we are at that point of planning. Do you have an answer? Oh, well, the answer, Madam Chair, is in Fort Resolution and in Yellowknife. So there you go, Madam Chair. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I guess what I would ideally like to see, and I know there are competing interests, here, and different fishers have different things, is that perhaps this $9-million fish processing plant is not just in Hay River and the various remote collection stations are stationed around the lake, and perhaps we're breaking up this $9 million into smaller projects that actually make sure that the lake is evenly fished. I don't know if, in passing this specific line item, whether that's possible, and I would like to get a sense from the Minister of, going forward on this project, whether it's still possible that the millions of dollars for fishing actually get broken up and looks different than one plant. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Madam Chair. If I could turn it over to the Minister of ITI, please.
Thank you, Minister of Finance. Minister of ITI.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The plant plays into the larger fish strategy revitalization for Great Slave. We have been working in conjunction with a lot of the fishers, the Tu Cho Fishers Cooperative, other external parties. We are working with Memorial University on reducing the plant size so that we can meet the $9 million, which I'm sure you're all familiar with. The goal here is to build a fish plant in Hay River. That was what came out of the strategy that was tabled in the House in March of 2017, and that was part of the strategy. I hear from numerous fishers who do want the fish plant, including other Members in the House, as well, so the plan right now is for the $9 million to be used for the plant. My understanding would be that we would need to use it in that manner. However if there is the option for flexibility and we decide it's not the way to go, then we would look to explore whether we could use the money elsewhere. I will commit to the Member that we will note his concerns, and I will take them back to the department, and we will incorporate them as we go forward in our planning. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister of ITI. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I guess I am in a bit of a hard spot, then. I don't want to vote against this $9 million for the plant in Hay River, but I am very concerned that we actually haven't developed the fishing capacity around the lake to actually meet the demands of the plant that we are planning to build. I think we probably need a few more dollars put into remote collection stations and probably more money put into the infrastructure of individual fishers. I have talked to every single fisher, and they are just struggling to make a profit, let alone fish enough to use this plant that we are planning to build. I am hesitant to build a $9 million plant without providing the underlying infrastructure to make sure that people can actually give it enough fish. I guess I will just leave that as a comment for now. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Are there any further comments to this section? Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, that $9.1 million is staying in Hay River. Thank you. No, actually, at the end of the day, what I look at is doing the right thing, and I think that we have to revisit this and see what is the right thing and what is really required, because things do change a bit. I guess, in saying that, I would like to know where we actually are with respect to the design aspect of this. Are we just kind of started? Are we just talking to somebody, or are we kind of partway through it? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Hay River South. Minister of ITI.
We had a plan, and then, as we went out for the tender, all of the proposals came back too high, so we are just actually tweaking the plan. We have gone back to Memorial University, who has provided us with the technical expertise behind the plant design, to say that this is our budget and what are the areas where we can minimize or downsize things so that we can fit our budget, but also to look at different uses for the by-products of the fish and not only selling the fish. We're now also exploring where we can use stuff for fertilizers and things like that. My understanding is that we are close to having a second finalized plan ready to come out to Members. I don't have the exact date at this time, but it's closer to completion than to the start, for sure. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister of ITI. Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Madam Chair. What, if any, involvement does FFMC have in the design? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Hay River South. Minister of ITI.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I don't have that. I could probably flip through a thousand pieces of paper right now to find that. I know we do consult, and we talk with them. There is some restructuring going on there, as well, so I will commit to actually both Members who are very interested in fishing. I will come back with a briefing on fishing for both of the Members and any other Members who are interested. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Madam Chair. My understanding is that the original design was for something like an 8,000 or 10,000 square foot building, and now we are down to half of that. I am just wondering: I know that we ended up buying the equipment before we even had a design. What's happening with the equipment that is there if we designed for a building twice the size? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I think we can certainly commit to getting that information back to the Member. There's an obvious interest in it, but that does deviate a bit from the infrastructure carry-overs that we are looking at, Madam Chair, but we can certainly get the information, nonetheless.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Madam Chair. One other issue that comes up with that is the location of the plant. Can the Minister tell me what the location is, and if there are any alternate locations? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Madam Chair, I am going to add that to the commitment of information that we are going to get for the Member who has this interest in fishing.
Thank you, Minister. Do you have any further questions on the supplementary estimates?
Thank you, Madam Chair. The Minister of ITI mentioned the processing, as well, and I am just curious, I guess, as to the impact that the processing facility will have on the fish that come in. Is this government looking at processing as much as they can and not sending as much through FFMC? Thank you, Madam Chair.
