Thanks to the Minister for that information. I appreciate Mr. Hawkins’ comments. I would like to follow up on that with a motion. If I may go ahead, I move that this committee defer consideration of minerals and petroleum resources activity on page 12-17 at this time. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. We will have the motion circulated.
The motion has now been circulated. The motion is in order. To the motion.
Question.
Question has been called. The motion is defeated.
---Defeated
Activity summary, minerals and petroleum resources, operations expenditure summary, $19.349 million.
Agreed.
Agreed. Thank you. Activity summary, minerals and petroleum resources, grants and contributions, $1.455 million. Agreed?
Agreed.
Thank you. Page 12-19, information item, minerals and petroleum resources, active positions. Any questions?
Agreed.
Agreed. Thank you. Page 12-21, activity summary, energy, operations expenditure summary, $2.988 million. Agreed? Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I see again a substantial increase here. Could I just get a little summary of what that’s all about? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Ms. Magrum.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The energy division has increased by approximately $2.5 million in energy initiatives. That’s the reason for the increase. Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Magrum. Mr. Bromley.
Thank you. I see an increase there of about $1.5 million. How is this related to, or perhaps I could ask, I see this is through the Ministerial Energy Coordinating Climate Change Committee of Cabinet. Could I get some clarification on what greenhouse gas emissions – I assume that’s what we’re talking about here – are being achieved through this work and how it relates to the Greenhouse Gas Strategy? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Ramsay.
Thank you, Madam Chair, Mr. Chair. I’m going to go to Deputy Minister Vician for a response to that question.
Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Vician.
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you for the question. The Member is correct. The initiatives that are identified under the energy appropriation on this page reflect direction from the Minister’s Energy Coordinating Committee but by no means are the full suite of all the MECC’s guidance, those are distributed among a number of different departments. I’ll speak to the particular projects that are reflected in this appropriation proposed, but let me say that all of these contribute overall to our climate change objectives and our reduction of greenhouse gas emissions for the territory.
Emphasis in the initiatives that are identified here and, as you may note, the compensation and benefits is essentially the same, but the grants and contributions have changed and the specific project energy initiatives that are identified as per the Minister’s opening remarks in the House and committee earlier yesterday, one speaks to first of all a study, work with regard to dealing with natural gas conversion in the thermal zone. That is particularly focused on the overall initiative to look at LNG as a possible alternative to diesel fuel consumption in our communities, whether that’s in a community like Inuvik, which is a major consumer of diesel fuel but has been converted to LNG, as well as other communities in the thermal zone. So we have $150,000 proposed there.
There is a proposed investment of $1.4 million to the Whati transmission initiative once we continue the work. With alternatives to the diesel generation in that particular community, we’re looking toward providing hydro generation as the supply of electricity in that community.
We continue to support NT Energy with a $50,000 contribution to water monitoring, all of that leading to the potential for hydroelectric generation across the territory wherever we have that type of supply.
The other major initiative, of course, is one that we’re very pleased on identifying through the MECC Committee, which is another $200,000 towards a Great Bear mini-hydro project, and the Member for the Sahtu is familiar with that initiative, but we continue to work hard to try to identify a hydroelectric source of electricity in that region.
So that’s the example of the projects in that suite of contributions. We continue to support NT Energy, which is the unregulated component of NT Hydro, with a $700,000 contribution for their core resources. But as I said at the beginning, many other projects reflected in other departments – Housing, Public Works, ENR and others – reflect continued effort towards greenhouse gas reduction in our territory consistent with our strategy and the Greenhouse Gas Strategy. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Vician. Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I guess this raises a few questions. I know in the long-term energy options for Inuvik, wind was actually identified as one of the best, possibly the best. What are our investments in that one? I believe it was the Storm Hills as a possibility and the Reindeer Hill as another possibility.
The Whati transmission line, I know the community is most interested in developing their own hydro locally, and perhaps that fits in with the long-term here, but we have had this amount allocated to this project study of the transmission line several times in the past and it’s come to not. I haven’t heard anything more reassuring lately. I’m just wondering: typically we don’t spend the money, I don’t know where it goes, but I’m just concerned that we keep doing this over and over again without learning any lessons there.
Then, finally, in relation to the NT Energy core funding of $700,000, again, when will we see an evaluation there? In terms of cost of living here, people are not seeing it, they’re not seeing the benefits. We’ve had no new hydro development for I don’t know how long, other than replacement of the Blue Fish dam. So maybe I can get the deputy minister or the Minister to provide some details there. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Ramsay.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Under energy initiatives under the Department of ENR there is some funding for wind projects and wind monitoring. As well, on the issue of the Whati transmission line, I will go to Deputy Minister Vician for an update on the Whati transmission line. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister Ramsay. Deputy Minister Vician.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. So as with Whati, the Member is correct; we have made investments in the Whati project over the years. Those investments exceed over $1 million, but those are valid investments with regard to studies needed to determine the geotechnical conditions in the area. Also, route analysis and environmental conditions. Those studies continue to proceed. We are very hopeful, as we’ve indicated to committee previously, to receive a final report from the current work that began in 2013 looking at probably our best alternate route alignment and design for transmission line that would take into consideration future generation from the local supply, but in essence displacing current diesel, integrating it into the grid as per long-term objectives of the Power System Plan, connecting as much of the grid as possible. So we continue to do that and we look forward, as I believe and as I know the Minister has committed to committee that we would provide that update when it’s complete. It’s very, very important information to share once it’s done.
With regard to NT Energy, we continue to work with NT Energy on its deliverables as it goes with the overall Power System Plan work that they’ve been doing for this past year, a very important strategy for the North, and I’m sure, through the Minister, we could provide additional information on the works that the team that is doing that in NT Energy is providing. Thank you.
Thank you, Deputy Minister. Mr. Bromley.
Thank you for the details there, to the deputy minister and the Minister. I guess the people of Whati are incredibly patient people. They’ve been working at this for a long, long time and I just hope we can get something on the ground there. I know the expense that they’ve got and sitting on an amazing power source has got to be extremely frustrating.
My last question is the $200,000 for the Great Bear project, I know we’ve tried a few different things there. Where are we at on that? Do we have a specific project in mind that we’re supporting here? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Ramsay.
Deputy Minister Vician.
Thank you, Minister. Deputy Minister Vician.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. It is our intention, working with NT Energy, to work with the community closely on alternative proposals. As the Member is aware, many proposals have existed over the years. At this point, there is current discussion with regard to more smaller hydrokinetic type of installations associated with the Bear. Of course, any type of installation in such a pristine river requires due study with regard to its environmental and other impacts and this is the work that’s proposed. We have had good discussions with the community on this matter and anticipate, subject to appropriation of course, that we would get underway with this in the new year and look forward to the results that we could report back.
Thank you, deputy minister. Next on my list I have Mr. Yakeleya.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Certainly with the energy contributions, we certainly were pleased and people in Deline were pleased that the MECC Committee found it in their hearts to support that continued project. They have been at it for 17 years and they were just waiting for further funding to finish off the studies so they can come back and say this is exactly what they’ll need to start the construction. That’s my understanding. The Minister can correct me if I’m wrong. To start the construction of the Bear River hydro initiative. This has been in their view for about 17 years. Incredibly patient, as with the people from Whati. That is something that they look forward to.
I want to ask the Minister, is that something that on a going-forward basis is your understanding, that once the Deline people have done what they have to do, then that will come to, now, where do we find the money. It’s almost like the business case that where do we find the money to do the construction for the Bear River hydro.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Ramsay.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This will allow work to continue there, and the Member is correct. I mean, it’s going to take a sizeable piece of capital to put some hydro opportunity in the Bear River. Even if it is small scale, it still will come with a big price tag.
As far as what the $200,000 will get the community and the project, maybe we could go to Deputy Minister Vician for a bit of further detail.
Thank you, Minister. I’ll go to Deputy Minister Vician.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thanks for the question. The purpose of the ongoing work is to look again at other feasibilities and some alternative installations, hydrokinetic installations in the Bear River. By no means are we contemplating this to be the large scale kind of proposal that we’ve seen in previous iterations. The objective here is to identify the right kind of technology that can work with the Bear River in the region that can be integrated into the local grid in Deline.
We’ve had, again, some good discussions with the community on options for alternative technologies. I think many of the Members are familiar with many of the technologies that emerged in North America with regard to hydrokinetic installation. We’ve seen some success. We’ve seen some failure. This, again, continues to be feasibility work and trying to determine the parameters for an installation that could work in that area. We hope to be back to committee and to this House with, obviously, a solution that moves to a hydro solution versus the diesel generation that’s necessary today.
Thank you, Mr. Vician. Mr. Yakeleya.
Thanks for the update. The Bear has a lot of power, hydro power, and moving forward, when you look at a business case for the people in Deline to look at putting in a hydro plant, they could look at a long-term vision how do we get that revenue, how do we make it pay itself. There’s Tulita, there’s Norman Wells that could possibly be hooked up, or Good Hope. You know, thinking out there, we have oil and gas activity across the river that may be able to use some of that energy. I think it’s no different than us putting money into a hydro grid down south of the lake here to other jurisdictions. I mean, let’s look at our own backyard and see what the Bear River hydro could produce not only for the community but for other communities and possibly for the oil and gas industry. That’s something for out-of-the-box thinking in terms of supporting the hydro initiative in the Great Bear River.
I want to leave that open for the Minister and say it’s not just isolating one community and saying, well, it’s a couple million doesn’t make any sense or whatever, but let’s go beyond that, just as we are thinking about going beyond the lake here. Going down and selling our power south of the lake here and you want to invest in several hundred million dollars. We have a good business case also in the Sahtu region using the Bear River hydro initiative. I want to just leave that with the Minister.
The other point I want to make on the energy is that now we’re using more of the wood pellets in the Northwest Territories and we’re promoting that through an energy initiative, which is a good thing. People like that and people are using that now. They’re starting to warm up to the wood pellet concept. I want to ask: Is the department thinking about, along with the Department of Justice, is there any type of upcoming type of legislation to regulate wood pellets? Because it goes with the markets, the prices are high, the prices are low. Right now there are no regulations on wood pellets. You buy it as the market demands. We need to have some type of regulations on purchasing bags of wood pellets. Even some of our stores now are carrying them. Like, Northern Store is starting to carry wood pellets. We’re going to start an industry here in the Northwest Territories, so we’ve got to keep ahead of this here and protect the consumers. We want to promote wood pellets and just have some regulations and have some good discussion.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Ramsay.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I agree with the Member. First off, we need to look at opportunities to get communities off of diesel. In the instance of Deline, perhaps it is hydro. In other communities there may be other alternatives, as well, so we just have to keep looking at opportunities.
On the wood pellets, we haven’t heard of any concerns that the Member has raised. I know plans are moving forward for the establishment of a wood pellet plant located here in the Northwest Territories. If the Member has concerns over consumer protection, that would be through the Department of MACA. They have a division there that looks at protection of consumers. We haven’t heard any of those types of concerns, and if the Member wants to raise those with us, we’d be happy to look into them for him.
Thank you, Minister Ramsay. Next on my list I have Mr. Moses, followed by Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. First off, I just want to say I appreciate the ongoing support and efforts to try to adjust the gas situation that’s going on in Inuvik, and although I wasn’t there for the commissioning of the LNG there last month or how many weeks ago it was, I still try to keep updated on how things are working and how it’s going. The Minister did mention that although we’re still looking for the meeting to long-term options for addressing heating in Inuvik, that possibility of LNG, which has been identified as the most promising solution to the energy situation that we’re dealing with in Inuvik.
Some of the things that I’ve been hearing is that the LNG is being consumed a lot faster than it was initially set out to be, and maybe if I can just get a commitment from the Minister to get us regular updates on the consumption of this LNG and just give us a little bit of a heads-up in terms of if we don’t have that LNG available to use, then we’ll have to switch back to natural gas and eat up our sources there, so maybe a commitment on how we can get updates on the LNG usage and consumption with the engines in Inuvik. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Moses. Minister Ramsay.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I should give some thanks to Minister Miltenberger and the Northwest Territories Power Corporation and work that they’ve done in Inuvik, as well as Premier McLeod in chairing MECC, on getting Inuvik the option of LNG. I was there for the commissioning of that facility and I think it was certainly a step in the right direction, again in an effort to get communities away from diesel.
As far as the questions about whether the consumption of LNG has been more than what folks in Inuvik had anticipated, those questions would probably be best answered by the Minister of the Northwest Territories Power Corporation, Mr. Chairman.
I just wanted to get confirmation on the consumption and usage of the LNG and whether or not it’s being used at a faster rate than initially proposed when the commissioning happened. I know there was an amount of days that they said that once it was ready to be used, and hearing that it’s actually being consumed a lot faster than what it was initially intended for. I know there are trial and error runs and we want to try to come up with the best solution, so I just want to know if it’s the same thing that the Minister is hearing.
Thank you, Mr. Moses. Minister Miltenberger.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Consumption is up. Whether it’s because it’s not as efficient as they thought it would be, I think the pressure is more on the cold weather and costs are up all over the place just because of the cold and the greater demand, but I can get that detailed information for the Member. Thank you.
As stated in the Minister’s opening comments, this is the most promising solution for our energy situation. With those fairly strong remarks, I was wondering if there are any other invested infrastructure possibilities to increase the storage space for this LNG, seeing that the Minister and I’m assuming that the Energy Committee has decided that this is probably our best solution, that if there’s investments looking in the future for a storage facility that can last for a longer period of days. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
