Debates of October 23, 2018 (day 41)

Date
October
23
2018
Session
18th Assembly, 3rd Session
Day
41
Members Present
Hon. Glen Abernethy, Mr. Beaulieu, Mr. Blake, Hon. Caroline Cochrane, Ms. Green, Hon. Jackson Lafferty, Hon. Bob McLeod, Hon. Robert McLeod, Hon. Alfred Moses, Mr. Nadli, Mr. Nakimayak, Mr. O'Reilly, Hon. Wally Schumann, Hon. Louis Sebert, Mr. Simpson, Mr. Testart, Mr. Thompson, Mr. Vanthuyne
Topics
Statements

Question 429-18(3): Use of Alcohol Sales to Fund Alcohol Abuse Treatment Programs

Marsi cho, Mr. Speaker. On my Member's statement, I talked about the impacts of alcohol in the small communities, or I guess impacts of alcohol in all our communities. You probably know the answer to this, but I'm going to ask the Minister of Finance if he could look at the possibility of reinvesting some profits directly into the issues of the impacts of alcohol in the communities. Thank you.

Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Masi. Minister of Finance.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I completely agree with the Member that alcohol is a widespread program all across the Northwest Territories, all walks of life, and I believe it is something that we need to continually battle. It has affected probably everybody in this building, and I'm sure most families in the Northwest Territories have been affected and are still being affected by alcohol.

Having said that, the money that we get from alcohol sale goes into general revenue, and that money that is in general revenue is then used to deliver a lot of the programs across the Northwest Territories, including those that are specifically designed for mental health and addictions.

One of the key issues in the communities is bootlegging. I know that the government put some money into general revenues, and then, this rolled out. I know that the social envelope gets their fair share, but I'm not sure that there is anything that is in there at all in all of government that directly combats bootlegging.

I'd like to ask the Minister if there is any possibility that there could just be a pot of money that comes from the sale of alcohol hearing what he just said, but if they could reconsider this and put something directly into combatting bootlegging?

The Member is correct. Bootlegging is widespread across the Northwest Territories, unfortunately. We would not like to see that, but it is a fact of life. I think the law enforcement have been doing a good job in trying to crack down on some of the illegal bootlegging or the illegal sale of alcohol. I think we see it quite regularly in the news now, the fact that they are posting pictures of alcohol that they have seized. That's a good start, and I think there are more people that are speaking up about those that are bringing in alcohol, and that is needed, those that bootleg alcohol, if we have people willing to come forward and testify against those. As the Member said, a lot of small communities, I mean we are a small jurisdiction, you know who the bootleggers are in each community, and unfortunately, without those coming forward to testify against them, then they continue to operate.

As far as identifying a set amount of money to combat that one particular issue, again I go back to the fact that money goes into general revenue. I suppose it is a discussion that we could have with committee, and, if it's something that they feel quite strongly about, I can't guarantee that it's going to happen, but we need to start the discussion somewhere.

I'd like to ask the Minister, just along the same lines, a little bit of difference: is there a possibility that, without any prohibition or anything, that the government or the liquor stores themselves can set a restriction on the amount of alcohol an individual can purchase in one day?

My understanding is, going back in history, that it has been tried in a few communities. They tried to restrict the sale of alcohol, but it didn't work out. I think that was just more of a business opportunity for bootleggers because I think they did quite well off of this. They went back to non-restricted sales.

Again, we would have to have a conversation with the liquor stores. We would have to hear from the communities. I know people in the territories have very strong opinions on alcohol and the effects of alcohol in the community, and we've all seen it firsthand, and we've seen a lot of people that have sobered up, and they are doing quite well for themselves. Some of those folks are the biggest opponents of alcohol sales. We would have to have a discussion and see if we are able to work with restrictions. I do know it has been tried before, but it was very beneficial to those that bootleg.

Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Oral questions. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I don't have the answer, either, and I don't think anyone does. It is next to impossible to get somebody to buy alcohol off a bootlegger then see the whole thing through to court. Therefore, people just don't engage in that. Like the Minister said, small town, no one wants to be seen as the person that is blowing the whistle on bootleggers, even though no one likes them.

Is there a possibility, then, that, not in communities, where you would restrict alcohol? I recognize that some of those things in the past have failed, but where the liquor stores themselves set their own restrictions, if they know there is a bootlegger coming in every day to buy booze, is there a way that the liquor store can or the government can work with the liquor stores to prevent that from happening? The restrictions could be well within the needs of anyone in the Northwest Territories, but it would not be well within the needs of what the bootlegger needs to continue to operate. I would just like to ask the Minister: is there anything there, at all, that can be done by the government? Thank you.

This is a topic that needs more investigation. As the Member is aware, a lot of these people that bootleg wouldn't actually go into the liquor store to buy the alcohol themselves. They would use, and the word is "use," other people to go to buy the alcohol for them, which takes some of the pressure off of them. They have ways that they work around it, and I think restrictions have been tried before. If there was a known bootlegger that came in, again, we would have to have a look at this because I can't stand here right now and say, yes, we're going to do it. I'm just pointing out reality is that they use a lot of different people to go to get their supply for them, and then they sell it. It is something that is widespread. It is widespread, and it is something that we would not like to see happen, and we would like more people to stand up and take a stand against this. Good on some of the folks in the community that battle alcohol, and the effects it has on the communities. All the power to them. If there is any support that we can provide them, it is something that this government should consider. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Yellowknife North.